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  #1  
Old April 22, 2011, 05:50 PM
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Question Subjunctive in adjective clauses

I'm still working through some of my issues with the subjunctive in adjective clauses. The workbook that I have seems to me to have insufficient explanations on this topic, so I'm reading some articles online.

In one article, I found the following two sentences:
Escoge la clase que más te guste.
Escojo las clases que más me gustan.

I'm a little fuzzy on the reason for using the subjunctive in the first sentence.

The article gives the following translation for the first: Choose whichever class you like best. Does the subjunctive, then, imply the "whichever"? Or would the sentence be better written as Escoje cualquier clase que más te guste.??

(I definitely understand why the second is indicative.)

Thanks for any suggestions you can offer!!
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Last edited by laepelba; April 22, 2011 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Wrong word in the title.... DOH!
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  #2  
Old April 22, 2011, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
I'm still working through some of my issues with the subjunctive in adjective clauses. The workbook that I have seems to me to have insufficient explanations on this topic, so I'm reading some articles online.

In one article, I found the following two sentences:
Escoge la clase que más te guste.(neither you nor the person helping you know what classes are going to be the one you like)
Escojo las clases que más me gustan.

I'm a little fuzzy on the reason for using the subjunctive in the first sentence.

The article gives the following translation for the first: Choose whichever class you like best. Does the subjunctive, then, imply the "whichever"? Or would the sentence be better written as Escoje cualquier clase que más te guste.?? (subjunctive)

(I definitely understand why the second is indicative.)

Thanks for any suggestions you can offer!!

Does that help?


EDIT: added "neither"

Last edited by chileno; April 23, 2011 at 01:05 PM.
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Old April 22, 2011, 08:26 PM
Luna Azul Luna Azul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
I'm still working through some of my issues with the subjunctive in adjective clauses. The workbook that I have seems to me to have insufficient explanations on this topic, so I'm reading some articles online.

In one article, I found the following two sentences:
Escoge la clase que más te guste.
Escojo las clases que más me gustan.

I'm a little fuzzy on the reason for using the subjunctive in the first sentence.

The article gives the following translation for the first: Choose whichever class you like best. Does the subjunctive, then, imply the "whichever"? YES Or would the sentence be better written as Escoge cualquier clase que más te guste.??

(I definitely understand why the second is indicative.)

Thanks for any suggestions you can offer!!
Actually, the verbs in both sentences can be switched to the other tense. You can say:

Escoge la clase que más te gusta.
Escojo las clases que más me gusten.


The reason being, when the person is not sure of what class he/she likes, you use the subjunctive. "Yo escojo la que más me guste". I still don't know which class that is.

If I'm pretty sure of what class I like, I use the indicative: "Yo escojo la clase que más me gusta... (que es la del maestro Benítez)"

It's the same for the first sentence. It's a command, but it works in the same way. I don't know what class you like, so I use the subjunctive: "Escoge la clase que más te guste (period)"

If I already know which class you like, I just tell you "Escoge la clase que más te gusta (la que me dijiste ayer)"

Does this make sense to you?

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Last edited by Luna Azul; April 22, 2011 at 08:30 PM.
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Old April 22, 2011, 08:41 PM
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Okay - that is very helpful!! Thanks, both of you!!
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  #5  
Old April 23, 2011, 05:34 AM
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aleCcowaN aleCcowaN is offline
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The problem is that a native speaker only by means of examining what's in his or her mind is able find a lot of instances of both subjunctive and indicative being "OK", and that's not the point.

The simple fact here is:

"Escoge la clase que más te guste."

comes in "command" form, so, there's a person "commanding" by using imperative and there are a person and a thing linked by the act of liking and the person that is giving advice neither knows which one is the thing nor can govern the person's likings. So the "command" is «choose a thing meeting the qualities of this adjective: "que más te guste"». It's a 100% adjective because the same way "rojo" hasn't been created having in mind "el auto rojo aquel" and it only carries a concept that can be used to identify or specify different things including "el auto rojo aquel", here "que más te guste" looks like it hasn't been created having in mind a specific class (the lame theory of "the class is unknown or undetermined, the person doesn't know what class the other person likes or would like, blah, blah!"). In fact it looks like it has been created don't having in fact the noun "class" in mind. Why? Look this:

Elige la clase que más que guste y deja la clase que más te aburra. Quédate también con la clase que más placer te dé, aunque no sea la misma que te gusta más.

Elige el/la amigovio/a que más te guste y deja el/la amigovio/a que más te aburra. Quédate también con el/la amigovio/a que más placer te dé, aunque no sea el/la mismo/a que te gusta más.

Those adjectives weren't cast having an specific noun in mind . Seriously though, neither the adjective "que te guste" was created to map all the things unknown to the speakers or uncertain to them.

On the other hand

"Escojo las clases que más me gustan"

is an habitual action. Firstly "te gustan" and then "las escojo". The last mentioned action can't be performed if the first one doesn't occur first. Here "que más me gustan" is also and adjective, but not just and adjective. This adjective is not purported as an identifier of specifier of the noun "clase" but mostly to illustrate my decision making process (my actions involving things, and not the things themselves). Just imagine what illustrates the phrase "escojo los novios que más me gustan" and what they'd tell and you'll get both are genetically different situation and not just mere "adjectival clause" which is in the end just a grammatical taxonomy.

Other sentences are valid in their specific narrow contexts. I won't explain how they work because it's Spanish 501:

(A says to B): "Elige la clase que más te gusta" [A presumes that B has been thinking about and has made a choice. A believes that B is here to communicate his/her decision] [another scenario: B has been telling he/she can't make his/her mind about choosing "quilting" that is the more likable class and "spreadsheets" that is the more practical in terms of job opportunities. Knowing that, A gives the advice of choosing quilting, not "la clase que más te guste", that is, A give advice about liked being better than practical in that specific situation]

"Escojo las clases que más me gusten" depicts somewhat a quicksilver person because he/she's speaking about habitual actions but deliberately postponing the act of liking to the moment when the class opportunity is available.
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Last edited by aleCcowaN; April 23, 2011 at 01:14 PM. Reason: typos
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Old April 23, 2011, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
Elije la clase que más que guste y deja la clase que más te aburra. Quédate también con la clase que más placer te dé, aunque no sea la misma que te gusta más. <-- Did you mean "te"?

Elije el/la amigovio/a que más te guste y deja el/la amigovio/a que más te aburra. Quédate también con el/la amigovio/a que más placer te dé, aunque no sea el/la mismo/a que te gusta más. <--I don't know what an "amigovio" is, and it's not in my dictionaries....

"Escojo las clases que más me gustan" is an habitual action. Firstly "te gustan" and then "las escojo"... <--Did you mean "me gustan", like in the sample sentence you gave?
Thanks, Alec. I am feeling confident about this now. (I'm sure you'll still see mistakes....) I only have questions about the few things I put 's near above..... Thank you!!
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Old April 23, 2011, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post

"Escoge la clase que más te guste."

Elige la clase que más que te guste y deja la clase que más te aburra.

Elige el/la amigovio/a que más te guste y deja el/la amigovio/a que más te aburra.

(A says to B): "Elige la clase que más te gusta"
Luna Azul

Quote:
laepelba <--I don't know what an "amigovio" is, and it's not in my dictionaries....

<--Did you mean "me gustan", like in the sample sentence you gave?
"Amigovio(a)" is a word used nowadays to meaning "amigo novio". It's used when the relation hasn't become very serious yet usually when you ask the person and they say "Es sólo un amigo/una amiga" but they don't behave as such.. ;-)

As for the second one, Alec might have a better explanation but I think he just made a typo there.
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Last edited by Luna Azul; April 23, 2011 at 12:57 PM.
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Old April 23, 2011, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna Azul View Post
Luna Azul



"Amigovio(a)" is a word used nowadays to meaning "amigo novio". It's used when the relation hasn't become very serious yet usually when you ask the person and they say "Es sólo un amigo/una amiga" but they don't behave as such.. ;-)

As for the second one, Alec might have a better explanation but I think he just made a typo there.
In other words, es un amigo con ventaja/con derecho a raspe etc.
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Old April 23, 2011, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna Azul View Post
Luna Azul



"Amigovio(a)" is a word used nowadays to meaning "amigo novio". It's used when the relation hasn't become very serious yet usually when you ask the person and they say "Es sólo un amigo/una amiga" but they don't behave as such.. ;-)

As for the second one, Alec might have a better explanation but I think he just made a typo there.
Thanks, Luna! "Amigovio/a" sounds like a fun word to use with my students... It's not inappropriate, is it?
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Old April 23, 2011, 01:12 PM
Luna Azul Luna Azul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
In other words, es un amigo con ventaja/con derecho a raspe etc.
I take it you're from Chile, chileno (duh). The word in Chile for "novio" is "pololo", right?. Can you give us some insight on how that word came out to be used? where did it come from?



Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Thanks, Luna! "Amigovio/a" sounds like a fun word to use with my students... It's not inappropriate, is it?
No, it's not..
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Last edited by Rusty; May 01, 2011 at 06:11 AM. Reason: merged posts
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