Ask a Question

(Create a thread)
Go Back   Spanish language learning forums > Spanish & English Languages > Grammar


Why is it ok to use el with a feminine noun?

 

This is the place for questions about conjugations, verb tenses, adverbs, adjectives, word order, syntax and other grammar questions for English or Spanish.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 09, 2010, 02:07 PM
Feliz Feliz is offline
Ruby
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 72
Native Language: American English
Feliz is on a distinguished road
Why is it ok to use el with a feminine noun?

Why is it o-kay to use el with the feminine noun aula? I can understand el programa because it is a masculine noun even though it ends in a (and also ma coincidentally). I have just realized that this is my favorite forum. I love Spanish Grammar!
Reply With Quote
   
Get rid of these ads by registering for a free Tomísimo account.
  #2  
Old September 09, 2010, 03:28 PM
pjt33's Avatar
pjt33 pjt33 is offline
Diamond
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Valencia, España
Posts: 2,600
Native Language: Inglés (en-gb)
pjt33 is on a distinguished road
El is used with feminine nouns which begin with a stressed a. "El agua" is probably the most commonly used example. For an example where the stress has to be indicated with an accent, consider el águila.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old September 09, 2010, 04:19 PM
Rusty's Avatar
Rusty Rusty is online now
Señor Speedy
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,299
Native Language: American English
Rusty has a spectacular aura aboutRusty has a spectacular aura about
This is akin to why we have two pronunciations for the word 'the' in English. If the following word begins with a vowel sound, we pronounce it as if it were written 'thee'. Likewise, the English word 'a' becomes 'an' if the following word begins with a vowel sound. In Spanish, the rule is 'if the immediately following feminine word begins with a stressed 'a' sound, the singular definite article 'el' and the singular indefinite article 'un' are used. The feminine plural articles are used, however.

el/un agua
las/unas aguas
el/un águila
las/unas águilas
el/un hacha
las/unas hachas

An extension of the rule states that compound words that begin with any of the words that fall under this category are also treated the same way, even though the 'a' sound is not stressed.

el/un avemaría
el/un aguamarina

There are words that are excluded from the rule - all proper names, names that denote a female person or animal, and letters of the alphabet.

la a
la hache
la Ana
La Haya
la árabe (a female Arab, as opposed to el árabe (a male Arab))
la ánade
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old September 09, 2010, 06:35 PM
Feliz Feliz is offline
Ruby
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 72
Native Language: American English
Feliz is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjt33 View Post
El is used with feminine nouns which begin with a stressed a. "El agua" is probably the most commonly used example. For an example where the stress has to be indicated with an accent, consider el águila.
I get it perfectly. I was aware of the el requirement before nouns that begin with the accented a, but it never occurred to me that the nouns had to be only "stressed" to require the el as well. Very clear. Thank you. :>)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
This is akin to why we have two pronunciations for the word 'the' in English. If the following word begins with a vowel sound, we pronounce it as if it were written 'thee'. Likewise, the English word 'a' becomes 'an' if the following word begins with a vowel sound. In Spanish, the rule is 'if the immediately following feminine word begins with a stressed 'a' sound, the singular definite article 'el' and the singular indefinite article 'un' are used. The feminine plural articles are used, however.

el/un agua
las/unas aguas
el/un águila
las/unas águilas
el/un hacha
las/unas hachas

An extension of the rule states that compound words that begin with any of the words that fall under this category are also treated the same way, even though the 'a' sound is not stressed.

el/un avemaría
el/un aguamarina

There are words that are excluded from the rule - all proper names, names that denote a female person or animal, and letters of the alphabet.

la a
la hache
la Ana
La Haya
la árabe (a female Arab, as opposed to el árabe (a male Arab))
la ánade
I am glad that I asked this question. I was going to just accept it--when I came across el aula, nf, in my current lesson plan. Just memorize it, that is.



I read a rule recently that all compound nouns require the masculine definite and indefinite articles. I was thinking of el abrelatas and el paraguas when I read the rule. But your examples of el/un avemaría and el/un aguamarina clear up any confusion about "a" words that I may have in the future.



Your list of exceptions-to-the-rule are interesting because I have memorized some of them already. But now, I know why they are the way they are! Very nice, you've made my day.

Last edited by Rusty; September 09, 2010 at 07:21 PM. Reason: merged back-to-back posts
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old September 10, 2010, 03:58 AM
irmamar's Avatar
irmamar irmamar is offline
Diamond
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,071
Native Language: Español
irmamar is on a distinguished road
Not all compound nouns are masculine nouns, they can be feminine. Usually, compound nouns with a verb in them are masculine ("el abrelatas", "el girasol", "el quitamanchas", etc.), but there are feminine ones, too: "la aguzanieves", "la cortapisa", etc.

There is a rule not respected (so, I'm not sure that it is a rule ) that the last noun gives the gender to the compound noun, so "el mediodía" would be affected by the masculine noun of "día" (el día). So, we have the following feminine nouns: "aguamarina", "avemaría", "telaraña", "aguanieve", "bocamanga", etc.

However, there are much more masculine compound nouns than feminine ones.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old September 10, 2010, 04:49 AM
Perikles's Avatar
Perikles Perikles is offline
Diamond
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tenerife
Posts: 4,814
Native Language: Inglés
Perikles is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
However, there are much more masculine compound nouns than feminine ones.
Please rewrite correctly and copy 100 times.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old September 10, 2010, 06:27 AM
aleCcowaN's Avatar
aleCcowaN aleCcowaN is offline
Diamond
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 3,127
Native Language: Castellano
aleCcowaN is on a distinguished road
el ave maría, el avemaría, la avemaría

la aguamarina

el ave / las aves
un ave / unas aves
algún ave
ningún ave
esta ave / estas aves
esa ave / esas aves
aquella ave / aquellas aves
toda ave
toda el ave
toda un ave
__________________
[gone]
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old September 10, 2010, 08:38 AM
irmamar's Avatar
irmamar irmamar is offline
Diamond
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,071
Native Language: Español
irmamar is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
Please rewrite correctly and copy 100 times.
Some help?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old September 10, 2010, 11:07 AM
pjt33's Avatar
pjt33 pjt33 is offline
Diamond
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Valencia, España
Posts: 2,600
Native Language: Inglés (en-gb)
pjt33 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Some help?
Many more. Much more is for uncountable quantities.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old September 10, 2010, 11:09 AM
Feliz Feliz is offline
Ruby
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 72
Native Language: American English
Feliz is on a distinguished road
Reply to Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Not all compound nouns are masculine nouns, they can be feminine. Usually, compound nouns with a verb in them are masculine ("el abrelatas", "el girasol", "el quitamanchas", etc.), but there are feminine ones, too: "la aguzanieves", "la cortapisa", etc.

There is a rule not respected (so, I'm not sure that it is a rule ) that the last noun gives the gender to the compound noun, so "el mediodía" would be affected by the masculine noun of "día" (el día). So, we have the following feminine nouns: "aguamarina", "avemaría", "telaraña", "aguanieve", "bocamanga", etc.

However, there are much more masculine compound nouns than feminine ones.
I am learning to trust my instincts and Spanish Grammar at the same time! When I came across: "All compound nouns require a masculine definite or indefinite article." in a lesson plan recently, I doubted the "all" part--because of my age and experience, probably. I only dared to use that rule in this thread because I had not come across any compound nouns that required feminine articles yet. What you say seems true about there being more masculine compound nouns than feminine ones--now that I know they even exist. I will study more closely what you have written and I thank you for including examples of compound nouns that require feminine articles. Gracias por la corrección.


Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
def art, definite article

 

Link to this thread
URL: 
HTML Link: 
BB Code: 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Site Rules

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Noun + de/a + verb pogo Grammar 6 November 12, 2009 01:45 AM
Unusual Noun Gender Jessica Grammar 7 November 03, 2008 08:47 AM
Is it masculine or feminine in the dictionary? bleitzow Vocabulary 8 November 12, 2007 02:50 PM
adjective noun order pogo Grammar 5 October 03, 2007 01:15 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:47 PM.

Forum powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

X