Compound Tenses

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Lorenzo

Me confunde con el órden de mi libro de texto también. Lo necesita escrito Se necesita escribirlo mejor.

confundirse = to be mistaken/wrong (synonym of equivocarse)
confundirse con = mingle/blend/get confused with

"It needs to be written" is an example of the English passive voice. The passive voice in Spanish is not used nearly as often. Instead, use the 'passive se' construct that appears above.

"Lo" can't be used as a subject pronoun. In the construct I used, the direct object pronoun lo is suffixed to the infinitive. Though awkward in colloquial English, the translation of the construct I used is:
One needs to write it

Originally Posted by Lorenzo

Sí, ya veo. Quiero usar/disfrutar de este sitio y mis libros de español.

"Ya (lo) veo" = I see (in the sense of understanding something)

Ask if you have other questions about the corrections.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Lorenzo

I get confused with the order of my textbook too. It needs to be written better.

Me confundo con el orden de mi libro de texto también. Lo necesita escrito mejor.

Rusty already corrected the first part, but the second one i guess he got confused too.

Se necesita que esté escrito mejor/mejor escrito
o
Necesita estar escrito mejor/mejor escrito.

[Rusty]

I also corrected the second part, chileno.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Rusty

One thing I noted here, and thought I would bring to your attention, is that the book said the compound tenses are formed with the (past) participle. This can't be said for the (progressive), which uses a (present participle).

My grammar book says

the compound tenses for all verbs are formed from the auxiliary verb haber followed by the past participle

This is an interesting statement because I think it is ambiguous and the author is unaware of the ambiguity. I take it to mean either

a) We define compound tenses as those where verbs are formed from the auxiliary verb haber followed by the past participle

or

b) A compound tense is one where the verb is expressed by more than one word. In Spanish, all such all tenses are formed from the auxiliary verb haber followed by the past participle

This is where the lack of clarity arises, because text authors overlook this ambiguity. It is obvious to them that they mean a) and they can't see that a student might understand it as b)

This is called Betriebsblindheit in German - you are so close to the material that you are unaware of your assumptions.

What do you think? Perhaps I'm labouring the point too much, but I do find gammar books very irritating in that they are full of such debatable points.

[irmamar]

I think you are confused, grammar is almost rubbing maths.

I agree with Rusty. You are studying las formas compuestas de los tiempos verbales, right? Why are you asking about las perífrasis verbales? To me they are quite different concepts, so you'll arrive to study las perífrasis verbales, don't worry.

[laepelba]

@Perikles - I definitely don't think you're belaboring the point too much. It's why I ask such questions. Perhaps only you and I can understand the way my mind might be compelled to do so....

@Irmamar - It's not "worry"... I KNOW that I will eventually learn the things I need to learn. When you're a mathematician you are trained to define the terms you use (I'm talking about the definitions of the grammar terms, not the definitions of vocabulary words themselves), and when reading these definitions to pick them apart word for word. I can't *NOT* do so. My confusion has been with the use of the word "compuesta" which, to my mind, is too generic to ONLY refer to "haber + participle". But if that is the definition of that grammatical term, I shall accept it as such.

[poli]

Perhaps when you the the word compound verb could be read
as subordinate verb. The verb haber is subordinate to the particple, because the meaning of the verb is in the particple.

There are other verbs such as estar that are can be subordinate in Spanish, but haber is nearly exclusively subordinate (though not completely)

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I also corrected the second part, chileno.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by poli

Perhaps when you the the word compound verb could be read
as subordinate verb. The verb haber is subordinate to the particple, because the meaning of the verb is in the particple.

There are other verbs such as estar that are can be subordinate in Spanish, but haber is nearly exclusively subordinate (though not completely)

Hmmmm..... ... interesting....

[irmamar]

Yo hablaría de "verbo auxiliar", más que de "verbo subordinado".