Que vs. lo que/la que

[conejodescarado]

Without getting all technical and linguistic, my understanding of when to use que vs using lo que can more or less be summarized as this:

if in English you could place "that which", or "this which" in place of the pronoun, you should use "lo que", otherwise you should use "que"

For example:

I have everything that I want.

This can be expressed as:

I have all (of) that (which) I want.

And thus, the Spanish would employ "lo que":

Tengo todo lo que quiero. (I hope!)

Similarly,

What I think, is …

Can be expressed as:

That which I think, is …

And therefore in Spanish becomes:

Lo que pienso yo, es … (I hope!)

Whereas other uses of "that" would make no sense when paired with "which".

The man that works in the café.

You can't express this as "the man that which works in the café", so here we just use "que" in Spanish.

El hombre que trabaja al café.

However…

I keep feeling tempted to use it (lo que) elsewhere, such as this, which I've just written incidentally:

Tengo esta sidra de pera (la) que quiero beber, pero quiero estudiar…

Should the "la" be present in this construction or not? It seems that Google Translate understands the meaning of the sentence if I put the "la" there, but misinterprets it if I just use "que".

According to Google Translate (which I know is not a good metric, but I just find it strange because my gut instinct was also to drop "la" in there):

Tengo esta sidra de pera que quiero beber = I have this pear cider I drink (it completely missed the "quiero").

Tengo esta sidra de pera la que quiero beber = I have this pear cider I want to drink (correct!).

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Tengo esta sidra que quiero beber -> I have this cider I want to drink
Tengo esta sidra, la que quiero beber -> I have this cider, which I want to drink.

[irmamar]

¿Una sidra de pera? :confused: :thinking:

[Cloudgazer]

I'd be interested in knowing if there is a significant difference between todo lo que and todo que, and which sounds more natural.

Using Conejo's example, is there a lot of difference between tengo todo lo que quiero and tengo todo que quiero? If not, is the todo lo que form used more often?

[irmamar]

Todo que :bad:
Todo lo que :good:
:)

[Perikles]

¿Una sidra de pera? :confused: :thinking:Its correct name is Perry, but because nobody knows anything these days, they changed the name to pear cider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry), so that young drunkards could understand more easily. :rolleyes:

[Cloudgazer]

¿Una sidra de pera? :confused: :thinking:
Oh sí, es muy rica! No sólo se hace la sidra de las manzanas pero el término se relaciona más con ellas.

Todo que :bad:
Todo lo que :good:
:)
Tan simple me duele, ¡gracias! :D

Its correct name is Perry, but because nobody knows anything these days, they changed the name to pear cider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry), so that young drunkards could understand more easily. :rolleyes:
¿Cómo? ¡No soy borracho! ;) Además, la sidra de pera no tiene que estar fermentada, al menos por estas partes.

[irmamar]

Its correct name is Perry, but because nobody knows anything these days, they changed the name to pear cider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry), so that young drunkards could understand more easily. :rolleyes:

But it is not correct translate "pear cider" into "sidra de pera". I don't know the correct translation :thinking:, but sidra is made of apples, by definition. :)

Cloud, I hadn't seen your answer. But if it is called "sidra de pera", the DRAE should change its entry. ;)

[Cloudgazer]

Me rindo. :D Si el DRAE no lo considera como sidra, tal vez se pueda llamar ¿"jugo concentrado de pera"? Noto que muchos diccionarios ingleses tampoco incluyen esta acepción de sidra. (Aún así, mi familia me insistiría en que este tipo de jugo fuera sidra en este momento, y no los quiero incitar a la violencia. ;) )

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Si la única diferencia en el proceso de fabricación es la materia prima (es decir, peras en vez de manzanas), no veo por qué no pudiera decirse "sidra de pera". :)
Por otro lado, si no se fabrica en países de habla hispana, muy probablemente también deberíamos decir "perry", como se hace con otros tipos de bebidas alcohólicas. :D


[...] but because nobody knows anything these days [...] :rolleyes:
I can only agree. :lol:

[conejodescarado]

Ah, ok, muchas gracias :)

Por tanto se puede decir que la diferencia es más o menos como "that" y "which" en inglés.

[Sancho Panther]

A while ago "Champagne Perry" became popular here and 99% of buyers were convinced it was inferior sparkling (grape) wine, I got into countless arguments trying to convince folks it was no more than sparkling pear cider - a delusion the producers were happy to encourage I hardly need to add!

[conejodescarado]

El nombre "perry" me hace pensar en los ancianos (come "sherry") ;) Es probablemente redefinido en estos días por motivos de márketing porque ninguno de los jóvenes quería beberlo.