grammer question from a movie

[canyonff]

I was watching I, Robot in spanish the other day and there is a scene where Will Smith, after being attacked by a robot, is talking to the co-star about cats. He had saved the cat during the robot attack. In english the dialouge is:

W.S "Do you like cats?"
girl "what?!"
W.S. "Cats, do you like them?"

However in Spanish, the speech and subtitles read:
¿Le gustan los gatos?
¿Que?
Los gatos, ¿le gustan?

Which to my understanding, is actually asking if cats like her not if she likes cats. Am I right? And if so is there a specific reason why it's worded in this manner, or is it just incorrect?

[Rusty]

This is perfectly formed Spanish, and will take a little time to master.

Let me try to explain it. Others may want to chime in.

Instead of the English 'you like them (the cats),' think 'they (the cats) like you.'

In Spanish, the English object (the cats) is conveyed by the conjugated verb gustar. Since 'cats' is plural, the 3rd person plural ending is used. If the object were singular, the 3rd person singular ending would be used instead. The English subject becomes the Spanish object, which precedes the verb. In this case, le represents 'you.'

The subject of the sentence (if it is unknown or if needed for emphasis) follows the conjugated verb.

I like the book. Me gusta el libro.
I like cats. Me gustan los gatos.

[Rusty]

Here's a good link that explains gustar:
http://www.indiana.edu/~spangram/GENGRAM/gustar.html

[canyonff]

gracias por la ayuda Rusty. After I read your first post It made me remember there was a special way to deal with gustar and similar verbs so I checked a site I visit frequently for a quick refresher. So I understand it now.

me gustan los fantas
?le gusta el fanta?
me gusta a Maria.

I'm heading to bed now, but I'll check out your other link tomorrow. thanks again.

[Alfonso]

Some small corrections for you, Canyonff

me gusta la fanta.
¿le gusta la fanta?
me gusta :bad: María.

[poli]

The verb gustar is not equal to like. Gustar means, it pleases. A common
way to say you like something in Spanish would translate it pleases.
For example: I like pizza translated directly from Spanish would be pizza
pleases me.(A mi me gusta la pizza)

If you want to say it in the more direct English style, heres how:
Lo encuentro agradable


.(I find it agreeable)

Be careful of the way you use gustar when talking about a person.
A mi me gusta Juan might mean that you really like Juan.
An alternative more neutral way of saying the same thing is:
A mi me cae bien Juan. A direct translation to English is Juan falls well
with me.


So in many cases caer biencan be and should be used in place of gustar.

[Alfonso]

Mmmmmm... I find some of the explanations given here a little complex, since you try to explain gustar comparing it with English verbs.
I would have to think a lot to find out if gustar and to please work the same way.
Regarding to like, It doesn't work the same grammatically, but I think it means the same than gustar.

I think that the point is that gustar works like this:

(A mí) me gusta(n)... I like
(A ti) te gusta(n)... You like
(A él, a ella, a usted) le gusta(n)... He / she likes, also you in a formal speech.
(A nosotros-as) nos gusta(n)... We like
(A vosotros-as) os gusta(n)... You like (plural).
(A ellos-as, ustedes) les gusta(n)... They like, also you (plural) in a formal speech.

Me gusta el cine. (Singular)
Me gustan los gatos. (Plural)
Me gusta cocinar. (Plus infinitive)
Me gusta María. (Plus a person)

¿Te gusta el cine?
¿Te gustan los gatos?
¿Te gusta cocinar?
¿Te gusta María?

Etc. Some exercises on this will be perfect to master it!

[Elaina]

Mmmm....

Estoy de acuerdo con Alfonso.

Me gusta = I like

Claro en el ejemplo de: Me gusta Juan. Esta frase puede tener una connotación impropia. Pero uno puede decir: Me gusta la forma de ser de Juan. -O- Juan me cae bien.

Me gusta la pizza.

Pizza pleases me. (unheard of)

Elaina;)

[poli]

Gustar works just like to please in English.

In English, I please pizza makes about as much sense as yo gusto pizza.
However,pizza pleases me is about as close a translation of me gusta la pizza as possible.
It is conjugated the same way.

I like... is more like: lo encuentro agradable.

[Alfonso]

Not exactly, Poli, since Pizza pleases me is an SVOd phrase, and Me gusta la pizza is a OiVS phrase.

That's to say, you can turn into a passive form Pizza pleases me: I'm pleased by pizza.

But you cannot turn into passive Me gusta la pizza, as it hasn't got a direct object. Me is an indirect object.

And I don't think this is the only difference. There must be some more.

Am I wrong? Pls., tell me!

[poli]

Alfonso
You are right. To please can be used in the passive tense, and gustar
cannot. I never thought of that. Sin embargo: a good way to explain
how gustar is used is to approximate it in English.
Por ejemplo:
Me(objecto directo) gustan(verbo) los libros(subjecto)
Books(subject) please(verb) me(direct object).Incidentally, this sentence makes sense but it's very stilted.

In English, we generally say it the other way around--making books
the direct object and I the subject.The closest way to translate closely
English style would be:

Yo (subjecto) encuentro (verbo) libros (objecto directo) agradable(adjectivo).

Poli

[Iris]

Please is better translated by agradar (it's lexically more similar, isn't it?) What do you think?

[Alfonso]

I'm sorry I don't have an opinion about agradar / to please, because I dont know the exact meaning of the verb to please.
But I know that agradar works the same way as gustar, with an indirect object:
(A mí) me agrada(n)
(A ti) te agrada(n)
Etc.
So I think the differences between the verbs to please and gustar, and the verbs to please and agradar are not that great. Lexically, of course, they're very similar. Grammatically they work differently.
I think the point is to produce the Spanish expression without thinking about the English version. However, if you are a translator, or an interpreter, you may need to compare how the two languages work. Then it works in a different manner. What do translators think about it?

[canyonff]

poli is right about using please, however, it's not meant to be used as the translation. What I mean is substituting please for like is simply an easier way for english speakers to correctly translate Gustar and other verbs of that nature.

en ingles:
I like the books.
[s v adj. d.o.]

however substituting please:
the books please me.
[ s v d.o]

which is the same word order/parts of speech that gustar employs

me gustan los libros
d.o v s

Gustar = Like
We're just substituting "please" so it's easier to figure out the word order, not the parts of speech. Even though please and like can share a similar meaning/idea, they aren't in this context.

[Alfonso]

Canyoff, I'm very sorry to have to say:


Books please me: subject, verb, direct object.
Me gustan los libros: indirect object, verb, subject.
How can you say that word order is the same? :confused:

[poli]

In English, (with the verb to like) in the sentence I like books, the book is the object of what you like. In Spanish, it is books that please the reader.
Perhaps Alfonso is right and in the sentence ,Me gustan los libros, the me
is an indirect object although I was under the impression that me was the direct object as it would be in the English translation, Books please me.

At any rate, if you put in in you mind that gustar approximates to please , you will have an easier time expressing you likes and dislikes in
Spanish.

Poli

[Tomisimo]

As others have said, I think gustar is easier to understand if you translate it as "to please" or "to be pleasing to".

Thus, instead of

I like cats
Do you like cats?

You have

Cats are pleasing to me
Are cats pleasing to you?

Which you can then translate literally into Spanish:

Los gatos me gustan (a mí).
¿Te/Le gustan los gatos (a tú/a usted)?

[canyonff]

/sigh


ok. I was unaware that the pronoun was an indirect object.

in the phrase "me gustan los libros" where is the direct object?

In english, to make "me" an indirect object the only way that comes to mind would be to say "the books give me pleasure."

Regardless, what I was trying to say in my last post is, by saying "the books please me." you are finding the correct pronoun to use, even if it's not the same part of speech (d.o or i.o.). So, while this may not be 'grammatically' correct, verbally it helps us SsL people.

[poli]

The more I think of it the more I believe that Spanish the me in me gusta is the indirect object because we sayle gusta not lo gusta when
we say he/she likes, and le is an indirect object.

[Alfonso]

Of course, Poli:
Indirect object pronouns: me, te, le, nos, os, les.
Direct object pronouns: me, te, lo, la, nos, os, lo, la.
The other point, more clearly: you cannot turn into passive me gustan los libros, simply because there is not direct object.