Ellos, Ellas, Ustedes

[BobRitter]

Ellos = they masc.
Ellas = They fem.

Ustedes = Everywhere I've looked it's "they/you all" or something like that. Does this mean that ustedes requires the person being addressed is included in "they" or does it indicate that I am addressing the group as a whole?

IE. I'm speaking to you and you are part of a group and you are all writing. I would say "Ustedes escriben" to include you or "Ellos/Ellas escriben" to indicate they but not you.

I hope I'm making myself clear. I was laying in bed and this popped into my head and I had to get up and post this. I really thought I understood this pretty basic concept but now I'm not sure.

Thanks, Bob Ritter, Pensacola, FL. USA

[Rusty]

you (all), plural = more than one 'you' (never means 'they') = ustedes

they = more than one 'he' or a group of males and females = ellos
they = more than one 'she' (all females) = ellas (all female)

If you're addressing the group, use 'ustedes' (in Latin America).
If you're referencing the group, use 'ellos' or 'ellas', as appropriate.

[BobRitter]

Thank you Rusty. That is how I thought it was but got confused. Something so simple.
So you NEED the ellos/ellas/ustedes since the verb conjugation is the same?
Ellos van..
Ellas van..
Ustedes van..
This is a bit different than yo/tu/usted/nosotros where the verb conjugation defines WHO and can be omitted. Verdad?

[Rusty]

Thank you Rusty. That is how I thought it was but got confused. Something so simple.
So you NEED the ellos/ellas/ustedes since the verb conjugation is the same?
Ellos van..
Ellas van..
Ustedes van..
This is a bit different than yo/tú/usted/nosotros where the verb conjugation ... ... conveys the person.
When the verb ending conveys the person, it's true that it isn't necessary to include the subject pronoun (true for 'yo', in all but imperfect and conditional, and 'nosotros, -as'; and for 'tú' and 'vosotros, -as').
In the third person (both singular and plural), however, there is the chance that there'll be some ambiguity as to the subject. So, you should provide your audience with the subject, unless it's already been established or can be deduced.

[BobRitter]

Gracias otra vez Rusty. I'm leaving for Ecuador Jan. 18 for 3 months of school and adventure. I am determined to speak Spanish before they put me under the ground. I'm 69 now so I better get seriuos about it.

[Rusty]

No hay de qué. Three months of school and adventure sound fun. Enjoy!