Question about phrases

[Liquinn3]

It's possible to speak Spanish in a way that is 100 percent grammatically correct and understandable and yet not be using phrases a native speaker would use; what suggestions would you have with avoiding this?

Thanks.

[chileno]

You mean to speak correct Spanish and no slang?

[Liquinn3]

You mean to speak correct Spanish and no slang?
Yeah, sorta. How would myself know what a native speaker would say though?

[Rusty]

Hang out with native speakers and listen to how they say things.

[Liquinn3]

Hang out with native speakers and listen to how they say things.
What if that isn't possible?

[Rusty]

Speak with others via Skype or some other means.
Listen to Spanish newscasts. Read Spanish articles about current events.
The internet has lots of media in Spanish.

[chileno]

But that alone, is not going to give you the knowledge if they are speaking good Spanish, as opposed to not speaking slang.

:)

[Rusty]

Good English will often include slang. In fact, I can't even imagine English that is devoid of slang. Idiomatic expressions can be classified as slang and all languages that I'm aware of are riddled with them. If you want to sound like a native, your speech will include all kinds of expressions.
There's more than one way to say something.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Speaking correctly all the time is something that just doesn't happen. Even the best of us will slip up grammatically.

I interpreted the OP's question a bit differently.
What I think he asked is how to avoid sounding different. He asserted that you can speak a language correctly but not use the phraseology a native would choose to use.

I totally agree.
Spanish has its own sound. It has its own rhythm and flow. It doesn't sound like English, even though the two languages share thousands of etymologies.

A non-native speaker tends to use phrases that sound 'quaint'. We who are native speakers can usually detect when a foreigner is speaking. This is because the non-native speaker hasn't quite mastered the expressions, the collocations and locutions that a native speaker uses day in and day out.

Collocation and locution take a long time to master in any language. It isn't enough to know all the words and how to use them. Words can sometimes be combined in predictable fashion and myriad sentences can be formed to express yourself freely, but some words must be used in a certain way or they won't fit the bill. A lot has been said in these forums about how some things just don't sound right.

The only way to avoid using phraseology that sounds odd is to listen to native speakers and mimic what you're hearing. This is a process that takes years.

[Sancho Panther]

You could marry a Spaniard - I did! At my request she (almost!) always corrects my Spanish, but if I ever have the temerity to point out the deficiencies in her English it is considered an outrageous affront!

Plus my daughter who attained an "A" level qualification in Spanish then went on to live for fourteen years in Alicante province never hesitates to pull me up when my Barcelona influenced usage differs from her Levante pronunciation.

For instance I always used to employ "Estirarse" for "Lie down", and I thought it was correct, but when daughter heard it she scoffed at it. Apparently the correct term is "Tumbarse" but my two ladies argued for ages over that! Yet 'estirarse' is almost invariably used in Catalonia!

There are others but they're even less interesting than the above!

[poli]

I like those usages which I have never seen before. In the Latin American Spanish I'm familiar with to lie down is acostarse whether it's in bed or not. Estirarse is usually used in the term estirarse la pata which is the equivalent of kick the bucket. I have never heard tumbar used in the reflexive, but I suppose you can use it to mean collapse. Se tumbó y tuvieron que llevarlo al hospital.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Poli: We say "estirar la pata" (to die), without the pronominal. :)
Estirarse, at least in Mexico, means "to stretch": when you wake up, when you are tired and try to recover a bit of muscle tone (a bit like "desperezarse" in other regions), or when you exercise and stretch for sport.

And although "tumbar" usually means to make something to fall down (tumbar un árbol, tumbar una casa...), "tumbarse" does have the meaning of intendedly lying down to rest.
We almost don't use it in Mexico, but if you say "Juan se tumbó en el jardín" it means he's placidly resting in the garden. Also, for: "mi papá llegó del trabajo y se tumbó en la cama", you're saying that he went to bed immediately.

[chileno]

Tumbarse it is understood but considered bad talking, as opposed to acostarse, which is the proper way, because in general an animal se tumba. Estirarse o darse un estirón it is understood as a funny way of saying acostarse. (You are just being funny/silly)

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I agree. "Echarse" and "tumbarse" as synonyms of "acostarse" are considered low register in Mexico too.

[poli]

Of course it's estirar la pata not just Mexico. Sometimes I don't hear myself when I write.:blackeye:
I just got done speaking with someone from Venezuela who said tumbarse se usa alla pero estirarse no.

[chileno]

Ah, me acordé. "Me voy a tirar en la cama", maybe that's what you heard.

[Liquinn3]

Why do I find it one thing getting the verbs conjugated on paper compared with speaking them?

Perhaps what I mean is, it's one thing to know the verbs on paper but it's another thing using the tenses in fluid speech, thoughts?

[wrholt]

Why do I find it one thing getting the verbs conjugated on paper compared with speaking them?

Perhaps what I mean is, it's one thing to know the verbs on paper but it's another thing using the tenses in fluid speech, thoughts?

Speaking a second language at a natural pace requires developing the ability to speak without having to conciously and deliberately translate from one's first language. The most effective way to develop this ability is to spend many, many hours having conversations in the second language with a variety of people about anything and everything.

[Liquinn3]

Speaking a second language at a natural pace requires developing the ability to speak without having to conciously and deliberately translate from one's first language. The most effective way to develop this ability is to spend many, many hours having conversations in the second language with a variety of people about anything and everything.
True, how would one do this without living in the country?

Saludos.

[Glen]

True, how would one do this without living in the country?

Saludos.
It's a challenge, I agree. One thing that might help would be to try talking to yourself - out loud - in Spanish, about whatever it is you're doing or thinking at the moment; when you can't come up with how to say it right away, there's your incentive to find out how. Such a practice can be a big step toward the ultimate goal of formulating your thoughts first in Spanish, thus avoiding the huge mental obstacle of thinking in English and translating into Spanish. Good Luck!

[wrholt]

True, how would one do this without living in the country?

Saludos.

It's a challenge, I agree. One thing that might help would be to try talking to yourself - out loud - in Spanish, about whatever it is you're doing or thinking at the moment; when you can't come up with how to say it right away, there's your incentive to find out how. Such a practice can be a big step toward the ultimate goal of formulating your thoughts first in Spanish, thus avoiding the huge mental obstacle of thinking in English and translating into Spanish. Good Luck!

Sometimes finding a compatible language-exchange partner can help: you and a native speaker of Spanish meet regularly to practice talking about anything, but half the time you speak in Spanish and half the time you speak in English.

There are several issues to consider if you try to find a language-exchange partner, in particular (a) the level of educational achievement and the degree of mastery of the educated standard, and (b) a sufficient amount of mutual interests about which to talk.