Reflexive comerse

[BobRitter]

Online-Spanish-Course.com phrase of the day:
Las ostras pueden comerse cocinadas o crudas.

Entiendo "pueden lavarse", "pueden vestirse" pero no entiendo "pueden comerse".

Can wash themselves, can dress themselves but "eat themselves"?

Reflexive verbs still throw me sometimes.

Thanks, Bob Ritter

[Rusty]

Comerse = to eat something all up / to gobble something up

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Bob: Not all "se" forms are reflexive. This "pueden comerse" is an impersonal.
Take a look at this thread (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=13735) for a longer explanation on them. :)

[BobRitter]

Thanks Rusty.

Angelica. After I posted the question I thought more about it and thought that it wasn't reflexive. I'll check the link you gave me.

[Rusty]

What I gave you was one definition of 'comerse', only paying attention to your thread title.
Angelica correctly gives the way 'comerse' should be interpreted in your example.
"Oysters can be eaten cooked or raw." (impersonal)

[poli]

That is an interesting usage. I would always use: Se puede comer las ostras crudas o cocinadas. (or a variation of it)

Bob's example is a new use for me. Is it a common usage?

[BobRitter]

I think it is finally getting though my think skull

Se puede comer las....... I would have recognized this.
Puede comerse las........ This is just attaching the pronoun to the end of the infinitive. Impersonal, someone can eat but not specific who. I think!

DO these all work?
Se puede hablar ingles aqui.
Puede hablarse ingles aqui.
Se habla ingles aqui.
Aqui se habla ingles.

Una sitio web muy buena sobre los diferentes tipos de verbos aquí:
http://www.spanishdict.com/topics/show/107

Por ssieempre, gracias. Bob

[Rusty]

Where I wrote 'impersonal' in parentheses above, I was only repeating Angelica's wording. In actuality, the Spanish sentence is a passive sentence.
The English structure I used was an example of the English passive voice. The Spanish sentence was not written in the passive voice (which is rare in Spanish and doesn't use the pronoun 'se'). It was written using a construction known as 'pasiva refleja'.

What poli used is an example of the 'impersonal se' construct. 'Se puede comer' = one can eat (or, 'you/they can eat', where 'you/they' is not directed at anyone in particular). This is not the same as the pasiva refleja, but may look the same in some cases. The 'impersonal se' construct is always using a singular third-person conjugation and it is only used when no one in particular is the subject.

The pasiva refleja construct has a subject and the verb always agrees in number with it.
Las ostras pueden comerse = oysters can be eaten
La bicicleta puede montarse = the bike can be ridden

The word 'inglés' is not the same as 'ingles'. They aren't even pronounced the same way. ;)

Using 'comerse' the way we're talking about has nothing to do with a reflexive verb. The word 'se' is used many different ways besides being a reflexive pronoun of a reflexive verb (which is a form of a pronominal verb).

Impersonal 'se' construct:
Se puede hablar inglés aquí. = One can speak English here.
(You/They can speak English here, where 'you/they' is NOT directed at anyone in particular)

Puede hablarse inglés aquí. (Unusual usage)

Pasiva refleja construct:
(aquí) se habla inglés (aquí) = English is spoken here
Se hablan español e inglés = English and Spanish are spoken here
(note that the verb ending agrees in number with the subjects)


Como siempre, gracias. = As always, thanks.
('por siempre' means 'forever') ;)

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Thank you, Rusty. You are right, this is a construction of "voz pasiva refleja", not exactly an impersonal. :)

[BobRitter]

Otra vez, gracias a todos.
Rusty: I seems like all this should be in graduate school. My mind is numb but it is all starting to sink in. The inglés thing is me being lazy. Como siempre, gracias.

[Rusty]

:) Sorry to speak in riddles (using the technical terms for everything), but giving a name to a construct might help you find more examples online, where other folks might have described the puzzling formation in way that'll make sense to you.
As I said before, 'se' is used many ways in Spanish. Studying up on them might come in handy later. ;)