Fotografía

[Stu]

Looking at the video of fotografía I see

Y en las estrellas .. tus ojos ver

Cada vez que te busco te vas
Y cada vez que te llamo no estás

Why ".." the sentence seems like it does not need a break?
I read that it is not polite to talk of body parts and say "tus ojos"?
The translation suggests "I see your eyes" but "ver" not veo - why "I see"?
"te vas" Someone said a pronoun changes the verb meaning from "go" to "leave" but why "te" and not "tu" What is te - reflexive/ indirect?
The translation given for "estás" is "not there" but literally it is more like "you are not" or you do not exist. How does this work?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I don't know if the original lyrics have ".." inserted in that verse; I suppose it's to mark the pause the singer makes, but it certainly doesn't need any punctuation (a comma, maybe); in any case, it should be "..."

I'm not sure I understand your question about bodyparts; everyone can talk about the eyes of someone else, and the only restriction is whether you use "usted" or "tú" to address the other person.

"Te vas" is conjugating the verb "irse", which includes a pronominal particle, that becomes "me, te, se, nos..."

The use of the verb "irse" is for expressing the fact that the person goes away from the one who is speaking.

You're interpreting the last verse as if it were the verb "ser". You can check the differences between the verb "ser" and "estar" here (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=260).

[Stu]

Thankyou that's clear.

I did see a question on the web about why people use los ojos instead of sus ojos or something such and one suggestion was a cultural preference for not referring to someones body parts.

[Rusty]

You use the article with a body part when it's obvious whose body part it is. It's not a cultural preference. This is done to avoid repetition of the obvious.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I agree with Rusty. Saying something like "me lavo mis manos" or "me duelen mis pies", is not impolite, but pleonastic. We assume that using the pronominal particle is enough to make clear whose body parts we are talking about.
You can find a discussion on this here (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=5985).

But in cases like "me gustan tus ojos" or "dame tu mano", since the idea involves two different persons, therefore someone else's body parts, the possessive is necessary.

[Stu]

Angelica,
This is what I saw on the web site. The author did not seem certain of the facts so could be mistaken. Perhaps you could comment?


You are correct that "Veo tus ojos" has the same meaning. I believe the reason that "Te veo los ojos" comes from a cultural aversion* to referring specifically to body parts. Referring to "your eyes" or "my eyes" or "his eyes" is considered a little less polite than referring to "the eyes."

The way to avoid using 'te' is just as you said, to say "Veo tus ojos." This will probably be understood by everyone, but might seem less polite, particularly in some contexts.

Another common example I have seen of referring to body parts this way would be signs in restaurant restrooms instructing employees to "Lave las manos" (Although I have also seen "Lave sus manos").

[wrholt]

You are correct that "Veo tus ojos" has the same meaning. I believe the reason that "Te veo los ojos" comes from a cultural aversion* to referring specifically to body parts. Referring to "your eyes" or "my eyes" or "his eyes" is considered a little less polite than referring to "the eyes."

This pattern is typical when referring to ANYTHING possessed by another person, not just body parts. For example, one is more likely to say "le arreglé el coche" = I repaired his/her car rather than "arreglé su coche".

Asserting that there is a cultural aversion to using possessive pronouns to refer to body parts is not sufficient to explain the general preference for using indirect object pronoun + definite article over using possessive adjectives.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

"Lave sus manos" is fine, but we avoid "lávese sus manos"; the preferred construction is "lávese las manos". However, the imperative of "lave sus manos" might be felt a bit less harsh than "lávese...".

"Te veo los ojos" is a correct sentence, but it sounds as if I were telling you that I can see your eyes despite the fact that you want to hide them, or that I'm examining your eyes as a doctor would do. :thinking:
"Veo tus ojos" has a more neutral meaning just that I see your eyes, and what you will hear more often.

I agree with wrholt. I might just say that "le arreglé el coche" and "arreglé su coche" are synonymous sentences and used indistinctively; the one we prefer to avoid is "le arreglé su coche". :)

[Stu]

Thank you for the clarification - that is great.