Para que + Subjunctive

[fglorca]

Does ‘para que’ always take the subjunctive, or does it depend on whether or not the action refers to the future (as is the the case with ‘hasta que’)?

Hasta que:

They never start the match on Saturdays until you arrive.
• Nunca empiezan el partido los sábados hasta que llegas.

They won’t start the match this Saturday until you arrive.
• No empezarán el partido este sábado hasta que llegues.

Para que:

He always gives me money so that I buy cheese.
• Siempre me da dinero para que compro comida.

He will give me money so that I buy cheese.
• Me dará dinero para que compre queso.

Our uncle gives us money so that we buy bread.
• Nuestro tío nos da dinero para que compramos pan.

Our uncle will give us money so that we buy bread.
• Nuestro tío nos dará dinero para que compremos pan.

Many thanks in advance.

[aleCcowaN]

para comprar comida ---> para que compre comida (for us to buy food)
para comprar pan ---> para que compremos pan

hasta que llegar

[wrholt]

As aleC implies: "para que" always takes a subjunctive. Sometimes it is possible to use "para" + infinitive instead of "para que" + subjunctive.

[fglorca]

Many thanks, guys.

[aleCcowaN]

"que" is part of the clause "que compre" so no wonder subjunctive follows.

hasta que llega ---> nunca está tranquilo hasta que llega su hija de la escuela nocturna
hasta que llegue ---> no se tranquilizará hasta que llegue su hija

It's a pity the whole subjunctive "thing" needs to be explained for this to make sense.

"Siempre me da dinero para que compro comida" supposes indicative meaning habit, when in fact subjunctive is just meant as an infinitive modified in order to inform the subject of the action: "siempre me da dinero para comprar comida" "¿y quién la compra?" "yo, siempre me da dinero para que yo compre comida". That way, purpose becomes purpose + agent; "to buy food" becomes "for me to buy food". "Para que compro comida" means "for I buy food" what makes as little sense in Spanish as in English. The reason is both actions (giving money, buying) clashing in the same sentence.

The problem as I understand it is looking for "markers" that affect the mood selection. "Siempre" then indicative would be the an example of what is wrong here. That is more English than Spanish.

In the Spanish discourse mood selection is prior to the codification of the message in Spanish itself. My "hasta que" examples illustrate that. In my experience, English speakers can't perceive clearly why one sentence contains "está tranquilo" and the other one "se tranquilizará". In the second example the whole situation is a "suspensiva", that means, peace of mind will come the very second the girl has arrived. One action is the clock of the other one and using mood to set the whole picture is a standard.

In the first example the use of "está tranquilo" gives out the speaker is not thinking in "the chain of events", that is, arrival then peace of mind. If I had to translate this example in English keeping the essence of the Spanish original I would try "he never gets calmed down until he has his daughter arrived". Surely not an elegant way to say it, but, what the heck, Spanish doesn't have much more grammatical elements just to say exactly the same English can.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Wrholt and Alec are right. When the action involves only one person we use "para + infinitive"; in other cases, "para + que + infinitive" is the usual choice. I'd like to add some examples:

- Voy a la tienda para comprar pan. :good:
- Voy a la tienda para que (yo) compre pan. :bad:
- (Yo) voy a la tienda para que mi mamá me compre pan. :good:

- Compré lápices de colores para dibujar. :good:
- Compré lápices de colores para que (yo) dibuje. :bad:
- (Yo) compré lápices de colores para que los niños dibujen. :good: