'le' verbs

[Oldman]

Here's something that bothers me (meaning I don't understand) .....There are verbs that end with letters "le", so they aren't pure AR, ER, or IR verbs and they apparently aren't quite reflective verbs ending in "se". Can someone give me a high-level explanation of these types of verbs and their behavior?

Thank you

[Rusty]

What you've called a verb is actually an infinitive. if used as follows. This is the unconjugated form that a verb is derived from.

An infinitive can be used in conjunction with a conjugated auxiliary verb, as in the following examples.

Quiero conocerlo. = I want to meet him (or you (a male)).
Quiero conocerla. = I want to meet her.
(Plural los or las may also be used in the same manner.)

The affixed pronouns above are direct object pronouns.
Below are examples of an affixed indirect object pronoun.

¿Puedo preguntarle la respuesta? = Can I ask him/her/you the answer?
Quiero preguntarles si han estudiado la tarea. I want to ask you if you have studied the assignment.

You mentioned 'se'. This pronoun may be a reflexive pronoun, as you've encountered before, but it may also be the alternate form of an object pronoun (used when two such pronouns are affixed). For example:

¿Puedo preguntársela? = Can I ask you it (where 'it' is a stand-in for an omitted feminine noun, like 'la respuesta'). The accent mark is required. It maintains the original stress of the infinitive when multiple pronouns are affixed.

Affixing an object pronoun is very common usage.
Choosing not to affix the pronoun is equally valid (and is what is first taught a student of the language).
Les quiero preguntar si han estudiado la tarea.


The same pronouns can be affixed to the present participle and the past participle. (By the way, the Spanish words for these parts of speech are respectively 'gerundio' and 'participio'.) For example:

No estoy pegándolo. = I'm not hitting him.
No veo que han estudiádola. = I don't see that you have studied it ('it' being the stand-in, once again, for something like 'la respuesta').

The gerundio and participio always need to be accented in order to retain original stress when a pronoun is affixed.



You could post examples of what you saw if the explanations I've provided above don't seem to fit the bill (I purposely stopped short of explaining all the ways object pronouns can be affixed).

[Oldman]

sure.....for example, in the current chapter I am reading, they introduce two infinitives 1) probarse and 2)quedarle. With regards to quedarle, why are they teaching me that infinitive with an "LE" ending? Why aren't they saying either quedar OR quedarse ? Why the "LE"......There a few other verbs/infinitives we've run across in previous chapters where the infinitive is including an 'le'....So I'm really wondering what is it about some verbs where they are telling me "LE"

[Rusty]

Just apply the explanation I gave above. This is a case when an indirect object has been affixed.

No quiero quedarle mal a mi familia. = I don't want to look bad for my family.

[Oldman]

I understand affixing (somewhat)....But why is the book saying here is an infinitive "quedar", but we want to call it quedarle ? When they introduced conocer, they didnt introduce it as conocerle. SO what is so special about quedarle or tomarle or dolerle. Why do you suppose the book is intoducing those verbs with the LE, but not , say, conocer?

(I reallze I may be asking you to be a mind-reader on why the authors did it this way)

[Rusty]

They are possibly presenting verbs using a model format in some of your lessons.

A model tells you whether the verb takes an object. However, there is one huge 'gotcha'. The use of 'le' in a model is representative only, and non-gender specific!

How conocer may be taught using a model follows.

conocerle a alguien
Here is the model for conocer. It tells you that the verb expects an object.
The 'le' stands for any form of object, however! And it is non-gender specific!

Here are some examples of how the verb may actually be used.

Quiero conocer Alemania. = I want to go to Germany (a first-time reference).
Conozco Alemania. = I've been to Germany (I know it because I lived there for a time).
Quiero conocer a esa chica. = I want to meet that girl.

¿Quieres conocerme? = Do you want to meet me?
(Familiar address is being used in the auxiliary verb. The direct object pronoun is the one used for first person.)
Sí, quiero conocerte (a ti). = Yes, I want to meet you.
(Familiar direct object pronoun - Second person).
¿Quiere conocernos (a nosotros)? = Do you want to meet us?
Sí, quiero conoceros. = Yes, I want to meet you.
Quiero conocerlo (a él). = I want to meet him.
Quiero conocerla (a ella). = I want to meet her.
Quiero conocerlos (a ustedes). = I want to meet you.

Lesson over.

Note well that the object is a direct object. The model's 'le' is representative of any type of object.

The fact that 'me', 'te', 'nos', 'os', 'lo', 'la', and 'los' are possible object pronouns isn't included in the model. Nor does the model tell you that conocer takes a direct object. Gotcha!


So, perhaps this is why your lesson on conocer wasn't taught using the conocerle model. Perhaps they thought it best to get right to the point, saying something like this:

"Conocer takes a direct object."

Then they patted themselves on the back for making it so clear. :rolleyes:
It's up to you, of course, whether you'll use a direct object or a direct object pronoun. And if you choose to use a direct object pronoun, it's up to you to adjust for person and gender.
(They may have taught that, too.)

Until you start using the verb in conversation, you won't have the satisfaction of putting it altogether to convey the right meaning.

[Oldman]

Thanks as usual......The textbook sucks is another explanation ( it actually does)