Mismo ... propia

[laepelba]

I've been following Bob's questions about "tu" and "tuyo" ... "my" vs. "mine". I have been contemplating the following: "mismo/a" and "propio/a". I believe that they are related (somewhat) to Bob's questions. Are "mismo" and "propio" like "(my)self" and "own"?

Some practice sentences:
Lo hice yo mismo/a.
Escribí una nota para mí mismo/a.
Ese libro es mío. (Does this one change with gender?)
Esa es mi propio/a libro.

Tú lo hiciste tú mismo/a.
Tú escribiste una nota para tu mismo/a.
Ese libro es tuyo. (Again, does it change with gender?)
Esa es tu propio/a libro.

Lo hizo ella misma.
Ella escribió una nota a su misma. ("su"?)
Ese libro es la suya.
Ese libro es el suyo.
Esa es su propio/a libro.

Lo hicimos nosotros mismos.
Escribimos una nota a nosotros mismos.
Ese libro es el nuestro.
Esa es nos propio libro.

Lo hicieron ellos mismos.
Escribieron una nota a sí mismos.
Ese libro es lo suyo. (Or is it "Ese libro es los suyos." ??)
Esa es su propio libro. (I mean to say here that "This is their book", third person plural. How could I accentuate the difference between third person singular and plural in this case?)

(In the examples above, I tried to create the Spanish versions of the following English sentences:
I/you/she/he/we/they did this (my)self.
I wrote a note to myself. (etc.)
That book is mine.
That is my own book.)

Do I have the basic idea?

[chileno]

I've been following Bob's questions about "tu" and "tuyo" ... "my" vs. "mine". I have been contemplating the following: "mismo/a" and "propio/a". I believe that they are related (somewhat) to Bob's questions. Are "mismo" and "propio" like "(my)self" and "own"? :good:

Some practice sentences:

Lo hice yo mismo/a.:good:
Escribí una nota para mí mismo/a.:good:
Ese libro es mío. :good:(Does this one change with gender?):?:(the one on this line or the following line?
Ese es mi propio/a libro.:good:

(Tú) lo hiciste tú mismo/a.
(Tú) escribiste una nota para ti mismo/a.
Ese libro es tuyo. (Again, does it change with gender?) I see... it does as to agree with the object... you are talking about... :D
Ese es tu propio/a libro.

Lo hizo ella misma.
Ella escribió una nota para si misma. ("su"?)
Ese libro es el suyo.
Ese libro es el suyo.
Ese es su propio/a libro.

Lo hicimos nosotros mismos.
Escribimos una nota a nosotros mismos.
Ese libro es el nuestro.
Esa es nos propio libro.

Lo hicieron ellos mismos.
Escribieron una nota a sí mismos.
Ese libro es lo suyo. (Or is it "Ese libro es los suyos." ??)
Esa es su propio libro. (I mean to say here that "This is their book", third person plural. How could I accentuate the difference between third person singular and plural in this case?)


(In the examples above, I tried to create the Spanish versions of the following English sentences:
I/you/she/he/we/they did this (my)self.
I wrote a note to myself. (etc.)
That book is mine.
That is my own book.)

Do I have the basic idea?


Yes you have more than the basic idea.

I will make a table that I always use with my students and it seems to help... it helped me! :D

Now I have to check how to make that table and populate here at Tomisimo.

I have not been able to record my voice on my notebook and I am not sure why not, as it sports a built in mic and when I use the "sound recorder" it seems to be working. At the moment to replay it, WMP opens it and it seems to go to the motions of reproducing but no sound comes out. In spite that I hear any sound or movie that I play on this machine... :(

So bear with me, I'll get back at you.:)

[laepelba]

Thanks, Chileno - I look forward to seeing your table! And the recording, when you have time. Maybe I ought to make a recording and have some people here critique my accent.......

[chileno]

Thanks, Chileno - I look forward to seeing your table! And the recording, when you have time. Maybe I ought to make a recording and have some people here critique my accent.......

Wait! It is difficult to be told by a native how to pronounce a word (especially the vowels,for hispaniscs ) At least, that has been my experience. It is better that you try to listen and "imitate" the best you can. (while recording yourself) ;)

At first it is a struggle and shocking to hear yourself in your language, let alone in another language, but one gets accustomed.

[laepelba]

Well, I just discovered that I'm pronouncing all "e"'s wrong.... Kind of disappointing, given that my students from Mexico keep telling me that my accent is "good".....

[chileno]

Well, I just discovered that I'm pronouncing all "e"'s wrong.... Kind of disappointing, given that my students from Mexico keep telling me that my accent is "good".....

Do what I am telling you. Remember that everybody will tell you that you speak "good Spanish"...

It happened to me with English, until I realized it wasn't so... :D

I know it is a drag, but it is up to you, not the other people. ;)

[laepelba]

Do what I am telling you. Remember that everybody will tell you that you speak "good Spanish"...

It happened to me with English, until I realized it wasn't so... :D

I know it is a drag, but it is up to you, not the other people. ;)

It's not that they tell me that I speak "good Spanish" - I have learned not to trust that. It's that when I ask them specifically about my accent, they say that it is "good". In fact, when I ask my Peruvian friend (who is a highly educated adult), she says that the only thing I need to work on is that my consonants are too harsh. But we've had THAT conversation, too. I understand that there will be regional variations (significant ones) in pronunciations. But I don't want to be completely off of everyone's radar.....

[chileno]

It's not that they tell me that I speak "good Spanish" - I have learned not to trust that. It's that when I ask them specifically about my accent, they say that it is "good". In fact, when I ask my Peruvian friend (who is a highly educated adult), she says that the only thing I need to work on is that my consonants are too harsh. But we've had THAT conversation, too. I understand that there will be regional variations (significant ones) in pronunciations. But I don't want to be completely off of everyone's radar.....

You will do fine, and if you do what I am telling you, you will be able to pick on yourself. :D

Anyway, here is the table... let's see how it came out and if you or anybody has questions... although I hope it does not become questionable. ;)

I hope this table will help you as much as it helped me. Keep in mind that I do not know/recall much of my grammar so the names that I have used might be off. It does not really matter because this is designed to speak to your mind directly.

The purpose of this table is to pluck the correct word in the sentences provided after the table. J

If you have questions just ask me.



{||}Pronouns|Pronombres|Possesives I|Posesivos I|Possesives II|Posesivos II|XXXXXX|X1X1X1
{|} I | Yo | My | Mi | Mine | Mío | Me | Mí
{|} You | Tú | Your | Tu | Yours | Tuyo | You | Tí
{|} He | Él | His | Su | His | Suyo | Him | Él
{|} She | Ella | Her | Su | Hers | Suyo | Her | Ella
{|} We | Nosotros | Our | Nuestro | Ours | Nuestro | Us | Nosotros
{|} You | Ustedes | Your | Su | Yours | Suyo | You | Ustedes
{|} They | Ellos | Their | Su | Theirs | Suyo | Them | Ellos
This are phrases to help you understand the table better.


{||}Possessives I|Possesives II|XXXXXXX
{|} This is ___ book|This book is ____|This book is for _____
{|} Este es ___ libro|Este libro es ___|Este libro es para ___
:)

[laepelba]

Extremely helpful, Hernán! Thank you SO much! When I return to DC, I shall print this out as a reference.

One quick question. When do mi/ti become mí/tí (con acentos)?

[chileno]

Extremely helpful, Hernán! Thank you SO much! When I return to DC, I shall print this out as a reference.

One quick question. When do mi/ti become mí/tí (con acentos)?

You know, I have asked people who know Spanish grammar and I have been told both, they do not have accent and that they do. :thinking:

So I opted to not accent them out of laziness more than anything else.

I'll check the RAE and see for an answer.

EDIT: I revised the table and included the tildes (acentos) where they should be. :-)

[irmamar]

:applause: Good table, Chileno :star:

Though... "Ti" has no accent and... ¿vosotros? :thinking: :D

[laepelba]

Thanks for checking the RAE for that one, Chileno!

Irmamar - he was doing that chart for me, and my main interest is Latin American Spanish, so I'm avoiding learning the vosotros form. I want to be aware of it, but am not using it at all. I hope that doesn't offend you. All of the Spanish speakers I interact with at work and amongst my friends are from Latin America....... Maybe some day I'll visit your beautiful country, but at that point, I'll make sure to study up on my vosotros forms.....

[irmamar]

Yes, but maybe there is somebody interested in this table. I just wanted to help. Forgive me.

[laepelba]

No - no need to ask forgiveness. I didn't even think of it that way! You're SO right!!

Hernán - could you add a line in the table for the vos forms? Actually, I have no idea what those would look like anyway, and as I've been reading the BBC Mundo, which often deals in Spanish as spoken in Spain, I ought to at least SEE these forms of things!

Thanks, Irma!! :rose:

[chileno]

:applause: Good table, Chileno :star:

Though... "Ti" has no accent and... ¿vosotros? :thinking: :D

I didn't read throughly and did not check for ti...

Shoot! I left thee without! Who art thou? :D :rolleyes:

pjt, perikles... is that correct?

[bobjenkins]

{||}Pronouns|Pronombres|Possesives I|Posesivos I|Possesives II|Posesivos II|XXXXXX|X1X1X1
{|} I | Yo | My | Mi | Mine | Mío | Me | Mí
{|} You | Tú | Your | Tu | Yours | Tuyo | You | Tí
{|} He | Él | His | Su | His | Suyo | Him | Él
{|} She | Ella | Her | Su | Hers | Suyo | Her | Ella
{|} We | Nosotros | Our | Nuestro | Ours | Nuestro | Us | Nosotros
{|} You | Ustedes | Your | Su | Yours | Suyo | You | Ustedes
{|} They | Ellos | Their | Su | Theirs | Suyo | Them | Ellos
This are phrases to help you understand the table better.


{||}Possessives I|Possesives II|XXXXXXX
{|} This is ___ book|This book is ____|This book is for _____
{|} Este es ___ libro|Este libro es ___|Este libro es para ___
:)

Te premio con el hilo del mes:D

Me pregunto ¿cómo se traduciría las conjugaciones para vosotros?
You all - vosotros
Yours - vuestro




Muchísimas gracias!!

[chileno]

Te premio con el hilo del mes:D

Me pregunto ¿cómo se traduciría las conjugaciones para vosotros?
You all - vosotros
Yours - vuestro




Muchísimas gracias!!


Me imagino que you = vos (sing) pl vosotros.

¿Pero me parece que en España no usan el vos, solo tú?

¿Irmamar?

[bobjenkins]

Me imagino que you = vos (sing) pl vosotros.

¿Pero me parece que en España no usan el vos, solo tú?

¿Irmamar?

He leído en Wikipedia hace tiempo

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Mapa_-_Paises_voseantes.png/300px-Mapa_-_Paises_voseantes.png (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:Mapa_-_Paises_voseantes.png) http://es.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:Mapa_-_Paises_voseantes.png)
En azul oscuro y azul claro los países con predominancia del voseo (excepto Chile que por error ha sido puesto en azul:eek:, pero que posee un sistema pronominal de segunda persona diferente al resto de países hispanoamericanos). En verde, los países donde la práctica se restringe a algunas zonas y en celeste, aquellos países donde casi no se usa. En rojo, la República Dominicana, España, Guinea Ecuatorial y Puerto Rico, donde el voseo no se usa nunca.
------
Es raro que en España se use vosotros pero no se use vos, me parece que vos es derivado de vosotros "they go hand in hand" , ¿porqué adoptan tú?:thinking::D

-------
Podría escribir un poco..

El libro es vuestro
Los libros son vuestros
Mi gente soy vuestros

¿Hay una otra forma como con su / suyo
vuestro / :confused:

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Inserting "vosotros" and Argentine's "vos" into Hernán's table. :)


{||}Pronouns|Pronombres|Possesives I|Posesivos I|Possesives II|Posesivos II|XXXXXX|X1X1X1
{|} I | Yo | My | Mi | Mine | Mío | Me | Mí
{|} You | Tú | Your | Tu | Yours | Tuyo | You | Ti
{|} You | Vos | Your | Tu | Yours | Tuyo | You | Vos
{|} He | Él | His | Su | His | Suyo | Him | Él
{|} She | Ella | Her | Su | Hers | Suyo | Her | Ella
{|} We | Nosotros | Our | Nuestro | Ours | Nuestro | Us | Nosotros
{|} You | Vosotros | Your | Vuestro | Yours | Vuestro | You | Vosotros
{|} You | Ustedes | Your | Su | Yours | Suyo | You | Ustedes
{|} They | Ellos | Their | Su | Theirs | Suyo | Them | Ellos

[bobjenkins]

Inserting "vosotros" and Argentine's "vos" into Hernán's table. :)


{||}Pronouns|Pronombres|Possesives I|Posesivos I|Possesives II|Posesivos II|XXXXXX|X1X1X1
{|} I | Yo | My | Mi | Mine | Mío | Me | Mí
{|} You | Tú | Your | Tu | Yours | Tuyo | You | Tí
{|} You | Vos | Your | Tu | Yours | Tuyo | You | Vos
{|} He | Él | His | Su | His | Suyo | Him | Él
{|} She | Ella | Her | Su | Hers | Suyo | Her | Ella
{|} We | Nosotros | Our | Nuestro | Ours | Nuestro | Us | Nosotros
{|} You | Vosotros | Your | Vuestro | Yours | Vuestro | You | Vosotros
{|} You | Ustedes | Your | Su | Yours | Suyo | You | Ustedes
{|} They | Ellos | Their | Su | Theirs | Suyo | Them | Ellos
This are phrases to help you understand the table better.

Gracias has contestado a la última pregunta:good: