Translating a simple paragraph (Exercise 3-6)

[laepelba]

Continuing to work through a book of basic Spanish grammar exercises, in an attempt to fill in some of the "holes" in the learning that I've done so far. It has been (I believe) very fruitful so far.

One of the exercises in the section on "ser and estar" asks me to translate a simple paragraph from English to Spanish. I did okay for the most part - only needed to look up a small handful of words, and the majority of the errors I made (according to their "answer" in the back of the book) were prepositions, etc. Unfortunately I DID make a couple of ser/estar mistakes.... :( :thumbsdown:

I want to ask some questions, though. So I'm going to include here (1) the original English paragraph, (2) my original translation, and (3) the "corrected" translation. I will indicate my questions at the bottom of this post.



{||}Original English Paragraph | My first attempt at translation | The "corrected" translation
{|}Arturo's children think he is the ideal candidate to be the governor of his state. Arturo is nice and very firm in his decisions. He and his family are from the United States, and his ancestors are from Europe. He is very honest but he is brutally frank. That's why he is not very popular in some cities. His children are not like Arturo. They are a bit hypocritical and are volunteers in their father's campaign office. They are very happy because they believe their father is the future governor of the state. They are preparing to celebrate the inauguration of their father's mandate. That event is not until next year. For well-educated people, they are very naive. It is important that they understand reality. They must be prepared for defeat. | Los hijos de Arturo piensan que él está el candidato ideal ser gobernador de su estado. Arturo es amable y muy firme en sus decisiones. Él y su familia son de los estados unidos, y sus ancestros son de europa. Él es muy honesto, pero es brutalmente franco. Por eso no está muy popular en algunas ciudades. Sus hijos no son como Arturo. Son un poco hipócritas y son voluntarios en la oficina de la campaña de su padre. Están feliz porque creen que su padre es gobernador futuro del estado. Están preparando para celebrar la inauguración del mandado de su padre. eso evento no es hasta el año próximo. Para gente instruida, son muy ingenuos. Es importante que entienden la realidad. Deben ser preparados para la derrota. | Los hijos de Arturo (1) piensan creen que él (2) está es el candidato ideal (3) para ser (4) el gobernador de su estado. Arturo es amable y muy firme en sus decisiones. Él y su familia son de (5) los (6) Estados Unidos, y sus ancestros son de (6) Europa. Él es muy (7) honesto honrado, pero es brutalmente franco. Por eso no (8) está es muy popular en algunas ciudades. Sus hijos no son como Arturo. Son (9) un poco hipócritas y son voluntarios en la oficina de la campaña de su padre. Están (10) feliz muy contentos porque creen que su padre es (4) el (11) gobernador futuro futuro gobernador del estado. (12) Se están preparando para celebrar la inauguración del (13) mandado mandato de su padre. Eso Ese evento no es hasta el año (14) próximo que viene. Para (15) gente instruida ser tan educados, son muy ingenuos. Es importante que (16) entienden comprendan la realidad. (17) Deben ser Tienen que (18) estar preparados para la derrota.


My questions are as follows:
(1) Are piensan and creen interchangeable here?
(2) Is it "ser" because it's talking about a profession?
(3) Why is the "para" there? Can you give me another example of a similar use of "para"?
(4) Twice. Again. A profession. With an article. Why??
(5) Why not "los"?
(6) Estados Unidos and Europa are capitalized. I get it. I can't always figure out the capitalization rules in Spanish, but I'm getting there. BUT ... in the Tomisimo dictionary, "europa" is not capitalized....
(7) Are honrado and honesto interchangeable here?
(8) For this one, I basically tossed a coin. I had no idea which to use, ser or estar. Why ser here?
(9) Notice that I used "un poco" correctly here!! Yay me!! :raisetheroof:
(10) Are feliz and contentos interchangeable here? Should it be felizes?
(11) Why is the modifier before the noun here?
(12) I have absolutely NO idea why "se" would be used here. Huh!?
(13) The Tomisimo dictionary has both "mandado" and "mandato". Are they the same? Interchangeable?
(14) "El año próximo" ... "el año que viene" ... interchangeable here?
(15) Okay, here's my sense of my error: to say "gente" here would be to refer to people in general, right? So could I have said "Para personas instruidas..."? Would that have been equivalent to "para ser tan educados..."??
(16) Are entienden and comprendan interchangeable here?
(17) Are "deben" and "tienen que" interchangeable here?
(18) Again. Aargghhh! It's estar because being prepared is not a permanent state, right? (sigh....)

Thanks for any help/answers you can give me!!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Los hijos de Arturo (1) piensan creen que él (2) está es el candidato ideal (3) para ser (4) el gobernador de su estado. Arturo es amable y muy firme en sus decisiones. Él y su familia son de (5) los (6) Estados Unidos, y sus ancestros son de (6) Europa. Él es muy (7) honesto honrado, pero es brutalmente franco. Por eso no (8) está es muy popular en algunas ciudades. Sus hijos no son como Arturo. Son (9) un poco hipócritas y son voluntarios en la oficina de la campaña de su padre. Están (10) feliz muy contentos porque creen que su padre es (4) el (11) gobernador futuro futuro gobernador del estado. (12) Se están preparando para celebrar la inauguración del (13) mandado mandato de su padre. Eso Ese evento no es hasta el año (14) próximo que viene. Para (15) gente instruida ser tan educados, son muy ingenuos. Es importante que (16) entienden comprendan la realidad. (17) Deben ser Tienen que (18) estar preparados para la derrota.


(1) Are piensan and creen interchangeable here?
-- Yes, they are.

(2) Is it "ser" because it's talking about a profession?
-- When you acquire a title, it becomes what you are.
The usual question to children is "¿Qué te gustaría ser de grande?" (What would you like to be when you grow up?)

(3) Why is the "para" there? Can you give me another example of a similar use of "para"?
-- "El candidato ideal" already has a conjugated verb. "Ser" is an infinitive related to "el candidato ideal", but you need a link word there.
In English what he is the ideal candidate for is introduced by "to". "Para", like "to", introduces the purpose of his candidacy.
- El té de canela es muy bueno para aliviar la tos.
Cinnamon tea is very good to mitigate cough.
- Yo soy muy mala para explicar cosas difíciles.
I'm very bad for explaining difficult things. ;)

(4) Twice. Again. A profession. With an article. Why??
-- There can just be one governor in his state: "EL gobernador" (THE one and only) ;)

(5) Why not "los"?
-- Regional issue. There are regions where many countries are accompanied by an article ("El Perú", "El Uruguay", "Los Estados Unidos", "La Francia", "El Líbano"...), but that doesn't seem to be "standard Spanish"

(6) Estados Unidos and Europa are capitalized. I get it. I can't always figure out the capitalization rules in Spanish, but I'm getting there. BUT ... in the Tomisimo dictionary, "europa" is not capitalized....
-- One more thing that will have to be corrected in Tomisimo dictionary. All (I mean ALL) country names are proper names (like first names, family names, river names, mountain names, continent names, etc.) so they are always capitalized.
Not the same thing for national names and languages (francés, inglés, español, estadounidense, etc.), which are not capitalized.

(7) Are honrado and honesto interchangeable here?
-- Kind of interchangeable, yes. When you talk about politics, "honesto" is someone who doesn't lie. "Honrado" is someone who doesn't steal.
(As if there were such candidates) :D

(8) For this one, I basically tossed a coin. I had no idea which to use, ser or estar. Why ser here?
-- I can't explain. "Es popular" is like being frank or honest... that's just a part of him... :thinking:

(9) Notice that I used "un poco" correctly here!! Yay me!! :raisetheroof:
-- Fantastic! :thumbsup:

(10) Are feliz and contentos interchangeable here? Should it be felizes?
-- "Feliz" is much more than "contento", but you could have used "felices".
Like the "g" and "j", "c-z" also make a dear couple. :love:
When "c" "teams up" with an "e" or an "i", all words derived from there will be written with a z before consonants and "hard vocals" (a-o-u).
And when words have a "z", their "relatives" will be written with a "c" when there's "e" and "i"
feliz (happy) -> felices (happy in plural), felicidad (happiness), felicitar (to congratulate)
arroz (rice) -> arroces (rices), arrocero (people related to rice culture), arrocito (small rice)
crecer (to grow) -> crezco (I grow), crece (he/she/it grows)
cruz (cross) -> cruces (crosses), cruzar (to cross), cruzó (he/she/it crossed)
cazo (caldron) -> cacito (small caldron)

(11) Why is the modifier before the noun here?
-- Can't explain either. There are some adjectives that just sound better before the noun. I can only guess that it's because you want to emphasize his future situation as governor rather than the title of governor itself. :thinking:

(12) I have absolutely NO idea why "se" would be used here. Huh!?
-- "Prepararse" is to get ready for something. "Preparar (algo)" is to prepare something.

(13) The Tomisimo dictionary has both "mandado" and "mandato". Are they the same? Interchangeable?
-- No, they are not interchangeable.
"Mandado" is used when you must carry out an order given by someone else.
"Mandato" is the standard word for a political or administrative appointment.
(It's supposedly the people who give the order, but it's an indirect assignment)

(14) "El año próximo" ... "el año que viene" ... interchangeable here?
-- Yes, they are interchangeable.

(15) Okay, here's my sense of my error: to say "gente" here would be to refer to people in general, right? So could I have said "Para personas instruidas..."? Would that have been equivalent to "para ser tan educados..."??
-- Choosing "gente" is not a mistake, but forgetting "ser" is.
The equivalents would be: "Para ser gente (tan) instruida", "para ser personas (tan) instruidas".
"Ser" states the fact that they are well-educated, so it can be opposed then to their being naive afterwards.

(16) Are entienden and comprendan interchangeable here?
-- "Entiendan" and "comprendan" can be interchangeable here, but both must be in subjunctive mode. "Entienden" is simple present.

(17) Are "deben" and "tienen que" interchangeable here?
-- Yes. "Deben estar preparados" and "tienen que estar preparados" can be interchangeable.

(18) Again. Aargghhh! It's estar because being prepared is not a permanent state, right? (sigh....)
-- I guess so, they have to work on it.
In this case, "tienen que ser preparados" would be passive voice, implying that someone would have to prepare them for defeat.


http://forums.tomisimo.org/picture.php?albumid=51&pictureid=590 :D

[laepelba]

(3) Why is the "para" there? Can you give me another example of a similar use of "para"?
-- "El candidato ideal" already has a conjugated verb. "Ser" is an infinitive related to "el candidato ideal", but you need a link word there.
In English what he is the ideal candidate for is introduced by "to". "Para", like "to", introduces the purpose of his candidacy.
- El té de canela es muy bueno para aliviar la tos.
Cinnamon tea is very good to mitigate cough.
- Yo soy muy mala para explicar cosas difíciles.
I'm very bad for explaining difficult things. ;) - No you're not!!

(7) Are honrado and honesto interchangeable here?
-- Kind of interchangeable, yes. When you talk about politics, "honesto" is someone who doesn't lie. "Honrado" is someone who doesn't steal.
(As if there were such candidates) :D

(11) Why is the modifier before the noun here?
-- Can't explain either. There are some adjectives that just sound better before the noun. I can only guess that it's because you want to emphasize his future situation as governor rather than the title of governor itself. :thinking:

(13) The Tomisimo dictionary has both "mandado" and "mandato". Are they the same? Interchangeable?
-- No, they are not interchangeable.
"Mandado" is used when you must carry out an order given by someone else.
"Mandato" is the standard word for a political or administrative appointment.
(It's supposedly the people who give the order, but it's an indirect assignment)

(16) Are entienden and comprendan interchangeable here?
-- "Entiendan" and "comprendan" can be interchangeable here, but both must be in subjunctive mode. "Entienden" is simple present.

http://forums.tomisimo.org/picture.php?albumid=51&pictureid=590 :D

(3) So, sometimes there is an "a" between a conjugated verb and an infinitive, sometimes there doesn't need to be anything between, and sometimes it's "para"? Okay - that actually makes sense....

(7) Interesting distinction. Funny that they just used "honest" in the original English version. How was I supposed to know.... Hmmm.....

(11) So, when choosing modifier/noun position, the one that comes first is the one that gets the stress in meaning? :?::?:

(13) I have honestly not ever heard "mandate" used in that context in English.....

(16) Well, that is simply not fair! (1) I don't know anything about the subjunctive yet, so I can't use it. And, (2) the chapter on the subjunctive is still several chapters away. Why would they slip that in there and not mention it at all. What about the poor people out there who are using this exercise book and don't have Tomisimo to help them!? ;)

I like your smileys! Do you make them yourself??

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for all of the work you have done with my little translation exercises. Your answers to my questions are EXTREMELY helpful!!!! :rose:

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

(3) So, sometimes there is an "a" between a conjugated verb and an infinitive, sometimes there doesn't need to be anything between, and sometimes it's "para"? Okay - that actually makes sense....
-- Yes, but there can be other prepositions that work as link words... I can't make right now an exhaustive list of meanings, but here are some examples:
- Comenzó a estudiar español. (He started to study Spanish.)
- Me vestí para salir. (I got dressed to go out.)
- Me saludó por ser amable. (He/she said hello to me to be nice.)

(7) Interesting distinction. Funny that they just used "honest" in the original English version. How was I supposed to know.... Hmmm.....
-- I think you could have keep "honesto", since that was the closest word to it. :)

(11) So, when choosing modifier/noun position, the one that comes first is the one that gets the stress in meaning? :?::?:
-- I cannot really know... I think it's mostly for euphonic reasons, but I guess emphasis plays an important role there too. :thinking:

(13) I have honestly not ever heard "mandate" used in that context in English.....
-- I don't know in English, but next time you're faced to that kind of appointment in Spanish, you'll know the word "mandato". ;)
Oh, btw, in Mexican news you will commonly hear they talk about country presidents as "mandatarios" (the people who carry out a "mandato" from the people who elected them.) :)

(16) Well, that is simply not fair! (1) I don't know anything about the subjunctive yet, so I can't use it. And, (2) the chapter on the subjunctive is still several chapters away. Why would they slip that in there and not mention it at all. What about the poor people out there who are using this exercise book and don't have Tomisimo to help them!? ;)
-- Well, some curiosity will arise from a conjugation you didn't know, so you'll start getting familiar with it before the lesson. :D

I like your smileys! Do you make them yourself??
-- No, I wish I were that talented. :)
Some time ago, a friend of mine shared her smiley collection with me and I have some 20MB of them. :D

[laepelba]

Thanks, Malila ... subjunctive, subjunctive, subjunctive ......... need to learn......... :)

I look forward to seeing MORE of your smileys!