Más que & Más de

[Perikles]

<-- When you say "has meaning", do you mean contains a complete subject/action meaning (even if the subject is implied and not necessarily stated...?
<-- So "ellipsed" is like when I said "understood"? It's not written/said as part of the sentence, but it's understood to be there?
....OK - a finite verb form is a form which has the 5 attributes of mood, tense, voice, person and number. i.e. any form which you would regard as having meaning in itself. This is in contrast to non-finite verb forms which include past participle on its own; gerund; and of course the infinitive.

Example: This time tomorrow, I will have been shot. The bold is a finite verb form: 1st; sing; indicative; future perfect; passive. 5 attributes. verb: to shoot

Example: be nice 2nd; sing.; imperative; present; active, of the verb to be (or it could also be 2nd plural etc.)

and so on.

"ellipsed" is like when I said "understood"? Yes.

Comparisons against constants also use de. Peso más de 70 kilos.@pjt gives an example which is an exception to the general rule which we were droning on about.

Does that help? We are in danger of doing this to death. :)

[laepelba]

@pjt gives an example which is an exception to the general rule which we were droning on about.

Does that help? We are in danger of doing this to death. :)

I know we are ... but I need to make sure that I never make this mistake again in the future. I have been directed not to move on to another thing until I understand the current thing. I really want to move on to the next thing, so I need to understand this one.

Anyway - I see PJT's example with the 70 kilos - and the ones with specific quantities I DO understand. :) (At least I get *something*!) I just feel like I'm going to make mistakes using "más que" instead of "más de" in situations that don't have specific quantities or a "lo que" in them...

[Perikles]

I know we are ... but I need to make sure that I never make this mistake again in the future. I have been directed not to move on to another thing until I understand the current thing. I really want to move on to the next thing, so I need to understand this one....I hear what you say, but I think the process of learning a language is not as linear as learning maths. At least it is so in my own experience with both. A language lacks the logical certainty, and a lot of the learning is done by osmosis, picking up fairly random snippets. I find I have to get something wrong several times before it sinks in, and even then it usually doesn't. :mad:

[pjt33]

I do see that this is what Perikles was saying ... and I understand the concept, but still am not always seeing it applied. Like what I wrote above (I can imagine this statement being "te quiero más que crees que te quiero" where the comparison is between **how much I love you** and **how much (you think) I love you**). It seems to me that even in this statement, it's still f(x) and f(y) like in the first part because both are still talking about a measurement of my love for you. :love: ;)
"Te quiero más que él" is f(x) vs f(y) - two measurements of how much the person loves you. But the amount I love you vs the amount you think I love you is f(x) vs g(f(x)), and the composition gives a different function because g isn't an identity mapping. :D

I hear what you say, but I think the process of learning a language is not as linear as learning maths. At least it is so in my own experience with both. A language lacks the logical certainty, and a lot of the learning is done by osmosis, picking up fairly random snippets. I find I have to get something wrong several times before it sinks in, and even then it usually doesn't. :mad:
¡No eres el único así, hombre!

[laepelba]

"Te quiero más que él" is f(x) vs f(y) - two measurements of how much the person loves you. But the amount I love you vs the amount you think I love you is f(x) vs g(f(x)), and the composition gives a different function because g isn't an identity mapping. :D

WHOA!!! That makes a crazily wonderful amount of sense........ Doing housework right now ... am going to ponder whilst I sweep........... Gracias!

[laepelba]

En el concierto no había más que 100 personas. -> Only 100 people were at the concert.
En el concierto no había más de 100 personas. -> There were less than 100 people at the concert.



Quiero a Juan más que [quiero ellipsed] a ti

The magnitude for my love for Juan = A
The magnitude for my love for you = B

The above statement Quiero a Juan más que a ti
actually says A > B

In order to make that statement, it must be a measurable difference, even if only qualitative.

te quiero más de lo que crees This second part is not so specific, it is not a direct comparison, therefore not such a measurable comparison.

I'm not sure whether this logical distinction is helpful, because it is perhaps unconvincing. Ultimately, it is a grammatical distinction, which (sadly) does not need the logical explanation you seem to need.

Does that help? :thinking:

Comparisons against constants also use de. Peso más de 70 kilos.

I just made an error in an exercise that made me come back and look for this thread. It has helped a lot to review it, and I hope that, after a year and a half, I am much better at grasping these concepts than I was then. :)

Here's the exercise:
English: Normally, she doesn't pay more than fifty dollars for a dress.
The book's Spanish translation: Normalmente no paga más de cincuenta dólares por un vestido.
Lou Ann had erroneously written "más que..." Doh!!

I believe that the things I quoted above are the reasons why it should be "de".... Not a question. I'm just sayin'. :)

[aleCcowaN]

English: Normally, she doesn't pay more than fifty dollars for a dress.
The book's Spanish translation: Normalmente no paga más de cincuenta dólares por un vestido.
Lou Ann had erroneously written "más que..." Doh!!

I believe that the things I quoted above are the reasons why it should be "de".... Not a question. I'm just sayin'. :)

You're right. "Más de" ---> quantities / "Más que" (when similar to the previous one) degrees and levels

[no paga] más de 50 dólares (meaning "50 dollars tops")
[no paga] más que unos pocos dólares (meaning "petty money")