Difficult languages

[Iris]

Do you think some languages are more difficult to learn than others? Or do they all have their "sore areas"?

[Rusty]

Mandarin is very difficult to learn. I quote someone else when I say 'everything is different.' The writing system, the 5 distinct tones you must master, and the vocabulary are all new.

Finnish is very difficult to learn. It has 8 noun cases (two more than Russian, four more than German). Usually, only Finnish babies can learn the language well. Another quote from someone else - 'endless noun cases.' The vocabulary is quite different from the rest of the 'European' languages, too.

I would like to learn more about these languages, still the same.

[Iris]

Want to know something funny? Mandarin has become part of the school curriculum in England. Can you imagine English children learning Chinese when they cannot even be bothered to learn European languages?

[Marsopa]

My daughter is starting Mandarin in the fall for a three year pilot program. She will be in eighth grade. A teacher is coming from China for three years. I told her she has to teach me whatever she is learning.

Marsopa

[Tomisimo]

It depends on what your native language is, or your other exposure to languages, but yes, some languages are harder to learn than others. It all depends on language features in your target language (the one you're learning) that don't exist in your L1 (your native language).

The examples of Finnish and Mandarin are valid for English speakers at least. English doesn't have a very extensive case system, while Finnish does, making it hard. English doesn't use tone to distinguish between words, while Mandarin does, making it hard.

Spanish differs from English mainly in three points: verb conjugations, subjunctive mood and gender. However, in general these differences are "easier" for an English speaker to learn than the tone and case of Mandarin and Finnish, among other differences in these languages.

Just my $0.02.

[María José]

I started learning both German and French at the same time and although I'm quite proficient in French, my German is practically non-existent...But I'll learn, probably in the distant future...

[Tomisimo]

Neat. I know a little bit of German, and almost nothing of French.

[poli]

David, you are fluent in Spanish and English. That means, whether you realize it or not, that you know a lot of French. Of course, proper pronounciation can be confounding. You already know the grammar
a big percentage of the vocabulary.

P.S. I think tonality used in Mandarin is rearing its head in English. Certainly tonality as used in English doesn't effect meaning as much as it does in the Far East The tonal valley-girl accent phenomenon has cought
on among young prosperous American women nationwide, and it appears to be replacing regional accents, but oddly less so among men. It's so sing-song that it practically sounds Mandarin.

[Tomisimo]

That's encouraging Poli. If I learn the basics of pronunciation I could probably communicate at a basic level.

[Jane]

I have some basic knowledge of French. However, when I started a French language course last year, I discovered that I was getting the two languages sort of jumbled up(Spanish and French), possibly because of their many similarities. So I quit the course, at least until I gained a complete command of Spanish...
In another thread started by Iris, http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=1380, most of us were of the opinion that it´s a good thing for kids to learn different languages at the same time (at a tender age)...
but what about the adults (well advanced in age...), how easy is it for us to learn two or more languages simultanously?

[Ramses]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Mandarin is very difficult to learn. I quote someone else when I say 'everything is different.' The writing system, the 5 distinct tones you must master, and the vocabulary are all new.

Well, there are 'only' 4 tones to master, and it's not THAT hard. Yes, learning the Hanzi can be a challenge, but it's also great fun when you get the hang of it. And yes, the vocab is totally different, but the grammar is just so straight-forward and at times easy, so that makes a lot better.

Originally Posted by Jane

how easy is it for us to learn two or more languages simultanously?

Depends on the languages. For example; French and Spanish. At the same time it'll confuse you. But for example Spanish and Turkish (like I do at the moment)? I think it's perfectly possible because the two languages are so completely different.

[CrOtALiTo]

It's probably truth, but I don't know if, I'm learning English and chinese at same time it could be hard do it.

But, I think if the person endeavor a lot learning two languages, in any case the person will learn the languages.

[Ramses]

I wasn't saying that it's not difficult. Of course it's best to concentrate on one language, but if you already have a strong base in one language, studying another language which is totally different won't cause much troubles.

[CrOtALiTo]

Of course.

[Jane]

Originally Posted by Ramses

...


Depends on the languages. For example; French and Spanish. At the same time it'll confuse you. But for example Spanish and Turkish (like I do at the moment)? I think it's perfectly possible because the two languages are so completely different.

Ok, at least, now, I know I´m not completely thick in the head or too old.

[sunikem]

The most difficult language for Native English speakers is Hungarian which is related to Finnish, however they cannot communicate with each other at all in their Native Language.

[CrOtALiTo]

I don't think so, I believe what the language more difficult in learn would be russian.

[sunikem]

I'm not sure, I know from my research that Hungarian is considered the most difficult, I think this is because of pronunciation rather than the letters themselves. Even though I speak very little Spanish my pronunciation of Spanish is much better than my Hungarian. I've been slowly learning Hungarian for just over 2 years ( my girlfriend is hungarian) and I've been learning Spanish for about 5 Months. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has or is learning Russian.

[María José]

Originally Posted by sunikem

I'm not sure, I know from my research that Hungarian is considered the most difficult, I think this is because of pronunciation rather than the letters themselves. Even though I speak very little Spanish my pronunciation of Spanish is much better than my Hungarian. I've been slowly learning Hungarian for just over 2 years ( my girlfriend is hungarian) and I've been learning Spanish for about 5 Months. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has or is learning Russian.

I find what both you and Crotalito say very interesting, and even though I have very little theoretical information about the subject, my practical knowledge, after teaching EFL for exactly half my life, and having been a student of foreign languages for even longer, is a bit wider. I love reading what linguists have to say on the topic of language acquisition, and I partly believe their findings, even if sometimes they are quite contradictory.
All the same, I think that when you speak about languages and humans you can never generalize. There are too many factors to take into account: ability, motivation, genetics, background, lifestyle, location,character...

But that's the beauty of it. Languages are full of unexpected surprises, and each and every learner has a unique experience (although there are, of course, common attributes when you consider, for example, a group of Spanish learners).

And (this one is for you, Sosia) here comes my egocentric moment: people say you learn a second foreign language through your mother tongue: I can assure you I have learned both French and the little bit of German I know through English. (Sorry, David, I took the liberty of adding my little show-off, to prevent possible future attacks by my lovely forum friends...Wouldn't want to give any names...)

[Rusty]

Hungarian and Russian are not related. As you pointed out, Finnish is a closer match. Finnish is a very hard language to learn, but according to some sources, Hungarian is even harder.

Russian uses the Cyrillic alphabet, while Hungarian uses an extended Roman alphabet.

Russian has 6 noun cases. Compare that to German (4) and Finnish (8). Hungarian has as many as 18 noun cases. For those who don't understand cases, it means that a noun has a different pronunciation (and spelling) depending on what part of speech it plays. There are 6 different ways to say 'park', 'book', and 'ball' in Russian, depending on what role the words play. There are a lot more ways to say these words in Hungarian.

So, I agree that Hungarian sounds like a difficult language to learn, and I have to believe what others have said about it - that it is one of the most difficult languages for an English speaker to learn.