Meaning Changes - Ser vs. Estar

[Elaina]

Well, I would be careful saying "estas guapa hoy" to a co-worker.....

You know about sexual harrassment and all....

It is a shame that one can't compliment another without worrying if you are politically correct or not.

I would accept a compliment like that any day.

[pacomartin123]

Originally Posted by Elaina

Well, I would be careful saying "estas guapa hoy" to a co-worker.....You know about sexual harrassment and all....:footinmouth

Perhaps the safest thing is never to make a comment on appearances. But it seems as if Latino culture is less concerned about equating professionalism with being gender neutral.

Not all men are egocentric maniacs. Sometimes a simple compliment helps your confidence if you are nervous before a presentation. They don't all interpret "nice tie" to mean "she want's me".

I did notice that when I lived in Mexico, "Gordo" was a fairly common nickname, while "Fatty" is almost non-existent in Anglo culture. It seems as if the culture allows people to say it with some affection, and not only use it as an insult.

[Elaina]

That is so true!

I guess we are more uptight here in the states about how we look or how others perceive us.

[DocMolly]

I would be careful using ESTAR BUENO/A when speaking of people. In my experience, when you say.

"Miguel está bueno." You are saying Miguel is physically attractive. In other words: "He's hot."

Of course, if he were just sick and you were referring to his health, it would be understood as healthy.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I agree, although "bueno" in the sense of healthy is (too) colloquial.

Colloquial:
--¿Y Miguel, sigue malo?
--No, ya está bueno.

Non-colloquial:
--¿Y Miguel, sigue enfermo?
--No, ya está bien.

[chileno]

Pero se presta para malas interpretaciones...

[DocMolly]

Thanks for your input Angelica. Yes, you're right. I didn't think about this before, but I would say "está bien" when speaking of someone's health.

[tetsuo]

Unfortunately only with ser and tener, but still entertaining...
http://www.digitaldialects.com/Spanish/tobetohave.htm

[AMG]

What a great discussion. I'd add one more thing:
- Estar perezoso: To have a bad attitude and unwilling to do something (momentarily)
- Ser perezoso: To be lazy (all the time)

[El Gato]

Are there meaning changes with all emotions if you use ser instead of estar?

Like:
Estar feliz
Ser feliz

Estar enojado
Ser enojado

Estar triste
Ser triste

[Liquinn3]

Originally Posted by El Gato

Are there meaning changes with all emotions if you use ser instead of estar?

Like:
Estar feliz
Ser feliz

Estar enojado
Ser enojado

Estar triste
Ser triste

Yep. If you say 'Estoy feliz' you're saying you're happy right now. If you say 'Soy feliz' you're saying you're a happy person.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

"Ser" is used when you're talking about the identity or an intrinsic characteristic of a person; "estar" is used for an attribute that doesn't belong to the person's personality description.

It's rather hard to imagine when I'd say of a person "es enojado", because "enojado" usually implies a specific situation for which one is upset. Nevertheless, there are people who can be described as being "colérico, irritable, iracundo" to indicate that this person is always angry or that they get easily angry, and this is a trait of his own personality.

If I say "soy feliz", it means I identify happiness with my own identity, but if I say "estoy feliz", it implies that something happened to me (something that is not a part of myself) that made me happy for a while.

If someone says "Juan está triste", one must assume there is something that happened to him that made Juan sad; but if there's someone who says "Juan es triste", they're probably talking about a melancholic rather dramatic personality.

Small example:
You have just met Mr. López, and you describe him: "El señor López es calvo y gordo."
Mr. López' brother describes him: "Mi hermano está calvo y gordo."
The difference in the chosen verbs is because if you have just met Mr. López, you may assume (consciously or not) that he has always been bald and fat, while for his brother, who knew him when he had long hair and was thin, these are characteristics that do not belong to the identity of his brother.

I hope this helps.

[El Gato]

Very helpful, thank you.

[Ivy2937]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I wonder if it would be a good idea to make a new sticky thread (or a vocabulary by theme thread?) looking at the changes in meaning that can happen when exchanging ser vs. estar + an adjective or participle. Let me give a few of the examples that I have run across for a start:

aburrido
ser aburrido = to be boring
estar aburrido = to be bored
Spanish : El es aburridor (boring) means usual characteristic
El está aburrido : temporary characteristic

callado
ser callado = to be soft-spoken
estar callado = to be silent

ser callado = quiet, tight lipped (habla poco)
estar callado= silent (silencio)

interesado
ser interesado = to be self-serving
estar interesado = to be interested
El es interesado = profit seeking
El está interesado=concerned, bother for
loco
ser loco = to be mad, upset
estar loco = to be scatterbrained
El es loco his usual characteristic= he is insane, crazy
El está loco= temporary characteristic= he is being crazy
rico
ser rico = to be rich
estar rico = to be delicious
El es rico = he is rich ( usual characteristic
El está rico= temporary situation at the moment, he is being rich

Rico could be an adjective about rich and also about an ice-cream está rico.

The linking verbs in Spanish ser, estar, parecer convey with ser a durative sense and with estar transitory effect as a general rule :
He is foolish and he is being foolish.

Originally Posted by El Gato

Are there meaning changes with all emotions if you use ser instead of estar?

Like:
Estar feliz
Ser feliz

He is happy usual characteristic
he is being happy now, at the moment

Estar enojado he is angry at the moment
Ser enojado we say in colombia es un cascarrabias (grouch) we don't use es enojado.

Estar triste he is sad at the moment, now, state

Ser triste he is a sad person his usual character.