Para or Por

[tony]

I need some basic guidelines in the usage of para and por.

Necesito unas directivas basicas del uso de para y por. Cuando se usa o dice para y cuando se usa o dice por? Gracias.

Please correct my first attempt at posting a question in Spanish (self study 2 months). Thanks.

[Fazor]

StudySpanish.com tiene un pagina buena sobre el tema aquí.

Y un otra pagina buena está aquí. (About.com)

[irmamar]

Basically, you can use "por" as a cause, and "para" as a finality. I'll explain more detailed in Spanish, if you don't mind:

- Para
Destino: El mes que viene parto para Lisboa.
Propósito: Este regalo es para ti.
Objetivo: Estudia para ser abogado
Comparación: Hablas muy bien español, para ser inglés
Futuro: Tengo que estudiar esta lección para mañana

- Por:
Tiempo: Me han hecho un contrato por un mes
Intercambio: ¿Cuánto me paga por el coche?
A través: Iremos por la nueva autopista
Esfuerzo: Trabajó toda su vida por sus hijos
Averguación: ¿Sabes quién ha preguntado por ti?
Frecuencia: Voy al gimnasio dos días por semana
Motivo: Robaron por hambre
Modo de ejecución: Envíalo por correo aéreo
Lugar o fecha indeterminados: Su casa está por ahí. Estuvo aquí por un tiempo.

For instance, you can see the difference:

Yo voy para Madrid (= hacia Madrid)
Yo voy por Madrid (paseo por Madrid, estoy ahí)

I hope it'll be helpful

[Fazor]

One thing that always tripped me up is that I always wanted to use 'por' as a translation of the word 'for', because they sound so similar. But 'para' is used for that.

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by Fazor

One thing that always tripped me up is that I always wanted to use 'por' as a translation of the word 'for', because they sound so similar. But 'para' is used for that.

Translation: 'para' se usa para eso.

And a thought from mine: Para traducir 'for', puedes usar para y por. (a little poem)

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Fazor

One thing that always tripped me up is that I always wanted to use 'por' as a translation of the word 'for', because they sound so similar. But 'para' is used for that.

Not always.

Originally Posted by irmamar

Translation: 'para' se usa para eso.

And a thought of mine: Para traducir 'for', puedes usar para y por. (a little poem)

As irmamar reminds us, 'por' is the correct translation of 'for' in some instances.
Gracias por la ayudas mnemotécnicas (memory aids), irmamar.

[CrOtALiTo]

I have other examples of the use of the word Para.

Para que veas.

Para que vas.


Para que te veas.

This are short examples, you can use into of the Spanish, I hope these examples can help you.

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Not always.

As irmamar reminds us, 'por' is the correct translation of 'for' in some instances.
Gracias por la ayudas mnemotécnicas (memory aids), irmamar.

You're welcome

Me das las gracias por (cause) algo que sirve para (finality or purpose) algo.

'Memory aids', I think once you told me, but I had forgotten. Thanks.

[brute]

mnemotécnicas

Is there a mnemonic to remember the spelling of this word?

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by brute

mnemotécnicas

Is there a mnemonic to remember the spelling of this word?

Yes, there is: following an alphabetical order, 'm' is before 'n'.

Hay soluciones mnemotécnicas para todo, sólo hay que buscarlas

[chileno]

Originally Posted by brute

mnemotécnicas

Is there a mnemonic to remember the spelling of this word?

Originally Posted by irmamar

Yes, there is: following an alphabetical order, 'm' is before 'n'.

Hay soluciones mnemotécnicas para todo, sólo hay que buscarlas

Also, m before p = lámpara

and

n before v = envío

I remember those since I was a kid, they stuck because I was in love with Mrs. Gloria.

She had been my teacher since Kindergarten.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by chileno

Also, m before p = lámpara

and

n before v = envío

I remember those since I was a kid, they stuck because I was in love with Mrs. Gloria.

She had been my teacher since Kindergarten.

These memory aids won't make a lot of sense to new learners of Spanish unless they are also taught that the letter n is pronounced as an m before those consonants (and the letters b and m need to be included in the list).
Many a native speaker will misspell those words if they don't remember the memory aids your teacher taught you.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Rusty

These memory aids won't make a lot of sense to new learners of Spanish unless they are also taught that the letter n is pronounced as an m before those consonants (and the letters b and m need to be included in the list).
Many a native speaker will misspell those words if they don't remember the memory aids your teacher taught you.

Rusty, you lost me. When is the letter n pronounced as an m? Could you please give me an example?

And yes I forgot about the combination m before b

[Rusty]

In many languages (although not in English, in most instances), the letter n is pronounced as if it were the letter m when it is followed by a labial consonant (i.e., b, m, p, and v). There is also a spelling convention, which is what you were stating, that the letter n is changed to an m before those consonants.

The spelling convention isn't always followed, like in the word inconveniente, but the pronunciation rule is. This word is pronounced as if an m appeared before the v.
Here are more examples:

Convencer is pronounced combencer.
Conmigo is pronounced commigo.
Enmascarar is pronounced emmascarar.
Sinvergüenza is pronounced simbergüenza.
Tan bien is pronounced exactly like the word también.
En piezas is pronounced exactly like the word empiezas.

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by Rusty

In many languages (although not in English, in most instances), the letter n is pronounced as if it were the letter m when it is followed by a labial consonant (i.e., b, m, p, and v). There is also a spelling convention, which is what you were stating, that the letter n is changed to an m before those consonants.

The spelling convention isn't always followed, like in the word inconveniente, but the pronunciation rule is. This word is pronounced as if an m appeared before the v.
Here are more examples:

Convencer is pronounced combencer.
Conmigo is pronounced commigo.
Enmascarar is pronounced emmascarar.
Sinvergüenza is pronounced simbergüenza.
Tan bien is pronounced exactly like the word también.
En piezas is pronounced exactly like the word empiezas.

Your explain was very useful.

Thanks.

[irmamar]

I agree with Rusty.

Otro mnemotécnico útil sirve para saber colocar los pronombres átonos en la oración: semana < mes < trimestre

Se me ha caído la chaqueta (semana < mes)
Me se ha caido la chaqueta

Se te ha ocurrido a ti (semana < trimestre)
Te se ha ocurrido a ti

[brute]

Originally Posted by Rusty

These memory aids won't make a lot of sense to new learners of Spanish unless they are also taught that the letter n is pronounced as an m before those consonants (and the letters b and m need to be included in the list).
Many a native speaker will misspell those words if they don't remember the memory aids your teacher taught you.

Misspell is a word which is often mispellt misspelt mispeltmispeldmispeledmispelld mispelld mispelled misspeld misspelldmisspel ...........................!!!!!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Rusty

In many languages (although not in English, in most instances), the letter n is pronounced as if it were the letter m when it is followed by a labial consonant (i.e., b, m, p, and v). There is also a spelling convention, which is what you were stating, that the letter n is changed to an m before those consonants.

The spelling convention isn't always followed, like in the word inconveniente, but the pronunciation rule is. This word is pronounced as if an m appeared before the v.
Here are more examples:

Convencer is pronounced combencer.
Conmigo is pronounced commigo.
Enmascarar is pronounced emmascarar.
Sinvergüenza is pronounced simbergüenza.
Tan bien is pronounced exactly like the word también.
En piezas is pronounced exactly like the word empiezas.

Ok, now I got it.

Although some of the combinations, at least en Chile, are not used like that, due to not pronouncing the v correctly.

Sinvergüenza becomes sinbergüenza etc.

Let me add that this phenomena appears in the lower social stratus where education is scarce at best. :/

[tacuba]

Originally Posted by irmamar

I agree with Rusty.

Otro mnemotécnico útil sirve para saber colocar los pronombres átonos en la oración: semana < mes < trimestre

Thanks for the rule Irmamar. I learned it as Reflexive < Indirect < Direct or R.I.D.

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by tacuba

Thanks for the rule Irmamar. I learned it as Reflexive < Indirect < Direct or R.I.D.

R.I.D? What is R.I.D?

¡Soy tonta! Ya lo he pillado