Para or Por

[Here4good]

Fun video by some high school students trying to explain por y para in a rap!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd0dl...eature=related

[xchic]

Originally Posted by Here4good

Fun video by some high school students trying to explain por y para in a rap!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd0dl...eature=related

Not as good as the Ser v Estar one , but I like it

[wafflestomp]

In the song "Por ti volaré" why do you use "por" rather than para? I was under the impression that when talking about doing something for somebody, you use "para" -- ie: "Èste ordenador es para ti"

[irmamar]

You are the cause: volaré por ti.

But you can say: hacer algo por alguien with two meanings:

1. I do something because of you:

Trabajo por ti, porque quiero ganar dinero para pagarte los estudios (cause).

2. I do something instead of you:

Hago el trabajo por ti (en tu lugar).

[chileno]

Besides, that "volaré para ti"= "I will fly for you" also means "that I will show you how I fly." Right?

[wafflestomp]

Alright, I'm understanding it now. Thanks to the two of you guys

[dvisto]

The following chart shows some of the major uses of these two prepositions.

Uses for por:

Expressing movement along, through, around, by or about: Anduve por las calles de la ciudad. I walked through the streets of the city.

Denoting a time or duration when something occurs. Viajamos por tres semanas. We're traveling for three weeks.

Expressing the cause not the purpose) of an action: Me caí por la nieve. I fell down because of the snow.

Meaning per: Dos por ciento.Two percent.

Meaning supporting or in favor of: Trabajamos por derechos humanos. We work for human rights.

Introducing the agent of an action after a passive verb: Fue escrito por Bob Woodward. It was written by Bob Woodward.

Indicating means of transportation: Viajaré por avión. I will travel by plane.

Used in numerous expressions: Por ejemplo. For example. Por favor. Please.

Uses for para:

Meaning for the purpose of or in order to: Para bailar la bamba, necesita una poca de gracia. In order to dance the bamba you need a little grace.

With a noun or pronoun as object, meaning for the benefit of or directed to: Es para usted. It's for you.

Meaning to or in the direction of when referring to a specific place: Voy para Europa. I'm heading to Europe.

Meaning by or for when referring to a specific time: Necesito el regalo para mañana. I need the gift for tomorrow. Vamos a la casa de mi madre para el fin de semana. We're going to my mother's for the weekend.

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by dvisto

The following chart shows some of the major uses of these two prepositions.

Uses for por:

Expressing movement along, through, around, by or about: Anduve por las calles de la ciudad. I walked through the streets of the city.

Denoting a time or duration when something occurs. Viajamos por tres semanas. We're traveling for three weeks.

It depends on the country. I'd say: "viajamos durante tres semanas".

Expressing the cause not the purpose) of an action: Me caí por la nieve. I fell down because of the snow.

Be careful. This sentence could mean that you fell on the snow. I'd say: "me caí a causa de la nieve" to avoid ambiguity.

Meaning per: Dos por ciento.Two percent.

Meaning supporting or in favor of: Trabajamos por los derechos humanos. We work for human rights.

Introducing the agent of an action after a passive verb: Fue escrito por Bob Woodward. It was written by Bob Woodward.

Indicating means of transportation: Viajaré por avión. I will travel by plane.

The same as the second sentence. I wouldn't say "viajar por avión", but "viajar en avión".

Used in numerous expressions: Por ejemplo. For example. Por favor. Please.

Uses for para:

Meaning for the purpose of or in order to: Para bailar la bamba, se necesita una poca de gracia. In order to dance the bamba you need a little grace.

With a noun or pronoun as object, meaning for the benefit of or directed to: Es para usted. It's for you.

Meaning to or in the direction of when referring to a specific place: Voy para Europa. I'm heading to Europe.

A o para.

Meaning by or for when referring to a specific time: Necesito el regalo para mañana. I need the gift for tomorrow. Vamos a la casa de mi madre para el fin de semana. We're going to my mother's for the weekend.

Vamos a casa de mi madre el fin de semana (sin para)/ vamos a pasar el fin de semana a casa de mi madre.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I mostly agree with Irma.

- I wouldn't use "por" instead of "durante".

- "Por avión" used to be a literal translation of French "par avion", to indicate that ordinary mail should be sent by plane, so sending something via air transport is the only case I can think of when some people would use "por avión" instead of "en avión".

- However, I have to disagree about the case of "me caí por la nieve".
"Por" can be actually used to give a reference about the place where something has happened, but not exactly the place:
· Me caí por el faro. (I fell somewhere nearby the lighthouse.)
· Tuvimos el accidente por Mérida. (We had the accident somewhere nearby Mérida.)
In these cases, "por" is not a cause, but a place around which something has happened. There is no immediate ambiguity in the meaning, because one wouldn't expect a lighthouse to be the cause of someone falling down, or a city the cause of someone having an accident.
In the case of the snow, I wouldn't find any ambigüity either, because falling somewhere around or nearby the snow would sound strange to me (as if it would be concentrated only in one spot).
We would say "me caí en la nieve" to say "I fell on the snow".


And by the way, here it's correct to say "voy a casa de mi madre para el fin de semana". Although speakers might not be fully aware of it, it's an ellipsis that's felt as saying "...para pasar el fin de semana".
Still, it's colloquial and the right expressions are those Irma suggested.

[irmamar]

Bueno, "caerse por" da un sentido de extensión, como si algo se desparramara: caerse por las escaleras, caerse las monedas por el suelo, etc. No diría "caer por el suelo" (una persona o ciertos objetos de un tamaño ya considerable; sí, sin embargo, unas monedas o pequeños objetos). También diría "caer por la nieve" porque vas resbalando y no caes en un punto fijo (si la nieve está helada, claro):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sTPFWnmvFI

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Aaaah, vaya... Claro, si ruedas cuesta abajo sobre la nieve es otra cosa. Yo pensé más bien en una extensión plana.
En ese caso estoy de acuerdo con la extensión de la explicación al respecto de "caer por".

[Sancho Panther]

'Para' and 'por' are probably the single most confusing aspect of Spanish grammar - I've been learnig Spanish for forty years, and I still occasionally get it wrong!

I remember reading many years ago that "Compré la casa para mi padre", meant that I paid for it myself (for him to live in); but "Compré la casa por mi padre" meant that I did all the work but he paid for it. I sought confirmation of this from mi señora (barcelonesa) and she said it was rubbish and each structure could nean either.

Far be it from me to contradict my wife but confidentially, I think she's wrong; what do you guys think?

[poli]

Originally Posted by Sancho Panther

'Para' and 'por' are probably the single most confusing aspect of Spanish grammar - I've been learnig Spanish for forty years, and I still occasionally get it wrong!

I remember reading many years ago that "Compré la casa para mi padre", meant that I paid for it myself (for him to live in); but "Compré la casa por mi padre" meant that I did all the work but he paid for it. I sought confirmation of this from mi señora (barcelonesa) and she said it was rubbish and each structure could nean either.

Far be it from me to contradict my wife but confidentially, I think she's wrong; what do you guys think?

Por can mean by means of. So, compré una casa por mi papá can mean
that he was instrumental in the purchase. Other example: pago por
carta crédito means I'm paying with a credit card. Pago para una carta crédito means I'm paying to obtain a credit card.
I agree with you that por and para causes problems for us. I say it right
and then correct myself and get it wrong sometimes,

[chileno]

Also por means "because or as a result"

Sancho, I agree with you.

I cannot think of an instance in which "Compré esta casa para mi padre" could mean "Compré esta casa por mi padre"

[irmamar]

I could say: Compré esta casa por mi padre, porque él me aconsejó que la comprara (just an example).

[chileno]

Originally Posted by irmamar

I could say: Compré esta casa por mi padre, porque él me aconsejó que la comprara (just an example).

Right, because of him.

[JPablo]

Right. I agree with the answers above.

@Sancho Panzer, what is the exact question?

(What you explained above made sense to me, so it seems to me that tu señora maybe didn't quite get what you meant?)

(It is just a question, because, if I don't understand something that I think I understand and you tell me that "you are wrong" and tell me why, and I get it, then I don't have to wonder anymore. If you tell me "you are wrong" but don't give the reason, then, it is possible a misunderstanding could have occurred...)

Hey, "¡hablando se entiende la gente!"

[Sancho Panther]

Originally Posted by JPablo

Right. I agree with the answers above.

@Sancho Panzer, what is the exact question?

(What you explained above made sense to me, so it seems to me that tu señora maybe didn't quite get what you meant?)

(It is just a question, because, if I don't understand something that I think I understand and you tell me that "you are wrong" and tell me why, and I get it, then I don't have to wonder anymore. If you tell me "you are wrong" but don't give the reason, then, it is possible a misunderstanding could have occurred...)

Hey, "¡hablando se entiende la gente!"

Oh, right!

[JPablo]

So... is this fully clarified for you?

[ChilenoAlemanCanada]

Originally Posted by Rusty

In many languages (although not in English, in most instances), the letter n is pronounced as if it were the letter m when it is followed by a labial consonant (i.e., b, m, p, and v). There is also a spelling convention, which is what you were stating, that the letter n is changed to an m before those consonants.

The spelling convention isn't always followed, like in the word inconveniente, but the pronunciation rule is. This word is pronounced as if an m appeared before the v.
Here are more examples:

Convencer is pronounced combencer.
Conmigo is pronounced commigo.
Enmascarar is pronounced emmascarar.
Sinvergüenza is pronounced simbergüenza.
Tan bien is pronounced exactly like the word también.
En piezas is pronounced exactly like the word empiezas.

I dunno, I don't think that would apply to Latin American Spanish. Are you from Spain, by any chance?