Barcelona - Spanish?

[satchrocks]

I've heard varying things about languages in Barcelona; from what I understand, Catalan is preferred, but Spanish is taught in schools. Is this right? Also:

Does anyone know any idiomatic Spanish phrases specific to the Catalan region that might be useful in traveling there?

[poli]

Originally Posted by satchrocks

I've heard varying things about languages in Barcelona; from what I understand, Catalan is preferred, but Spanish is taught in schools. Is this right? Also:

Does anyone know any idiomatic Spanish phrases specific to the Catalan region that might be useful in traveling there?

Tancat means cerrado.
Sortida means salida.

When I visited, I found everyone I encountered spoke Castillian, much
the way almost everyone in Montreal speaks English. I have heard that communities outside of Barcelona are less inclined to speak Castillian.
I believe, in school, courses are taught predominantly in Catalán. Much of the language is easy to translate to Castillian.

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by satchrocks

From what I understand, Catalan is preferred, but Spanish is taught in schools. Is this right?

Spanish is taught as a subject, but is not the vehicle of instruction for other subjects.

[Sancho Panther]

That might be the case in Valencia pjt, but in Barcelona, Girona, Lleida and Tarragona I think you'll find almost education is conducted in catalá. In fact in all local authority business catalá is the default language unless you request castellano.

[pjt33]

I think you missed the word "not".

[Esppiral]

I'm from Barcelona I'm bilingual (native spanish-catalan) and I can ensure you EVERYONE speaks spanish, and everyone will understand you if you talk in spanish to them, you don't need to learn catalan.

It would be usefull if you visit isolated towns far away from the capital, where the population is not used to speak in spanish.

[JPablo]

I agree with Esppiral.
There has been a pendulum swing in terms of "linguistic policy". Franco forbade the usage of Catalonian, but even in his life, Catalonian started to get used in Church and became widely used... even though it was repressed, and far from being officially promoted. When he died, after few years, Catalan was enforced all over the place in Catalunya...

My dad, (a Manchego in Barcelona for many decades) when visiting some farmer, he would tell him: "Parli, parli catalá, que l'entenc perfectament"... although these were the only Catalan words he could actually utter, with a Manchego accent beyond belief... At any rate, he understands Catalán pretty well...

When I go to Barcelona and speak catalán, I have no problem, except my occasional interjection of some English words (you know?) or some Gallicism... je ne sais quoi..., comme il faut!

[Villa]

Interesting story about Catalan is my brother-in-law's father was from Barcelona and spoke both Spanish and Catalan. He told us that when he moved and immigrated to the east coast of the U.S. he got a job in an Italian restuarant. Said he could communicate with the Italians right away. They said, "look a long lost cousin." Catalan is similar to Italian, French and of course Spanish. Also there is a town on the Italian island of Sardegna that speaks Catalan. This is from the time when Sardegna was controlled by Catalan.

[JPablo]

That's right...
Interestingly enough, phonetically speaking Catalan or Catalonian is closer to Italian than to Spanish Castilian... (even closer to Portuguese, than to Castilian)...
It's a nice language, I love listening Radio4 (RNE).

[Villa]

Originally Posted by JPablo

That's right...
Interestingly enough, phonetically speaking Catalan or Catalonian is closer to Italian than to Spanish Castilian... (even closer to Portuguese, than to Castilian)...
It's a nice language, I love listening Radio4 (RNE).

Hola Pablo. Així que parlar català molt bé aleshores? El pare del meu germà-en-llei em va ensenyar alguns català. He conegut a tota la família. Ells viuen a la Florida. Són persones molt agradables. Vostè m'entén?

[Esppiral]

Villa, d'on ets? escrius català força bé.

Gairebè no has fet pas cap falta, se t'enten sense cap problema.

Em fa molta il.lusió veure que gente d'una altre banda es pren la molestia d'apendre català

[JPablo]

És clar que t'entenc, Villa!

Potser escrius el català millor que jo mateix... (que ho tinc una miqueta oblidat...)

@Esppiral, tot i que a California es parla més espanyol que altres llengües, fa molta il.lusió quan et trobas algú que parla català...

(No em sembla que sigui una "molestia" apendre català, al menys et serveix per poguer llegir a en Josep Carner... que per cert fa segles que no he re-llegit...)

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by Villa

Also there is a town on the Italian island of Sardegna that speaks Catalan. This is from the time when Sardegna was controlled by Catalan.

More precisely, it's from the time when the Kingdom of Sardinia was in personal union with the Kingdom of Aragón under the Crown of Aragón. Barcelona was a mere county in a union which included six kingdoms, so it's curious that modern Catalan rhetoric talks of the països catalans.

[JPablo]

Well, I think Wikipedia gives a good explanation about the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pa%C3%AFsos_Catalans

[Villa]

Originally Posted by Esppiral

Villa, d'on ets? escrius català força bé.

Gairebè no has fet pas cap falta, se t'enten sense cap problema.

Em fa molta il.lusió veure que gente d'una altre banda es pren la molestia d'apendre català

Moltes gràcies pel complement, Esppiral. Va ser fàcil per a mi per aprendre català perquè parlo, italià, francès, espanyol i portuguès. Crec Catal ha barrejat molt amb Castellà també. Què et sembla? Molts dialectes de l'italià han barrejat, per exemple.

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by JPablo

Well, I think Wikipedia gives a good explanation about the subject.

Sorry, that was English understatement. What I really meant was that it's rather arrogant to say "They speak our language, so we should govern them", and even more so taking into account that those who say that are invariably promoting Barcelona's supremacy, often arguing on the basis of their own version of history, and completely overlooking that Barcelona was the junior member of the group.

[JPablo]

Mmm... and who are "they"?

I am not sure who was or is promoting Barcelona's supremacy, but what I know is that the swing of power from "Aragón" to "Catalunya" happened before Fernando married Isabel... but not politically, rather economically, because of the mere fact that Barcelona harbor was a trade link to the Mediterranean and the East...

In fact, what you say about the subordinate political role Barcelona was playing, it was obvious, in that they paid their "taxes" to the crown of Aragón, and the packages (if my History teacher was right) were tied with a ribbon... a yellow ribbon with 4 red stripes... the current Catalunya (and Valencia) flag...

But like the preface of Don Quixote goes,

"No te metas en dibu...
Ni en saber cosas aje...
Que en lo que no va ni vie...
Pasar de largo es cordu...

A good essay (or a good book) could be written about language and politics and/or vice versa... "Spanish Castilian" or "Castañol" as you well said, was at one point "la lengua del Imperio" (same thing happened with French... and English too...)

"Languages" can be a very efficient tool for domination... so I advocate for learning them well to have a chance to achieve some kind of freedom...

Otherwise, we can ask your "paisano", Orwell... or re-read 1984...

[poli]

a propósito: Catalano es un apellido común entre italoamericos. El apellido Castellano tambien se oye.

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by JPablo

In fact, what you say about the subordinate political role Barcelona was playing, it was obvious, in that they paid their "taxes" to the crown of Aragón, and the packages (if my History teacher was right) were tied with a ribbon... a yellow ribbon with 4 red stripes... the current Catalunya (and Valencia) flag...

Also the current Aragonés flag...

[JPablo]

Yup, that's right.