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DailyWord May 01, 2008 03:04 AM
Leche
 
This is a discussion thread for the Daily Spanish Word for May 1, 2008

leche -feminine noun (la), milk. Look up leche in the dictionary

Yo me tomo un vaso de leche todas las mañanas.
I drink a glass of milk every morning.

Alfonso May 01, 2008 04:02 AM
It's really tempting to link this daily word, leche, to Jane's today post, el colmo, as:
  • Es el colmo.
  • Es la leche.
... mean the same, with the latter being vulgar, and the former not. Do you use it the same way in other Hispanic countries?

poli May 01, 2008 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7455)
It's really tempting to think that today's daily leche and Jane's post about el colmo have the same meaning. :bad:daily word, leche, to Jane's today post, el colmo, as::bad:
  • Es el colmo.
  • Es la leche.
with the later (pronounced ladder) being vulgar , :bad:the last vulgar:bad: and the former not. Do you use it the same way in other Hispanic countries?
Let's see what Rusty and David, Elaina, Gomey and the rest say, but I've never heard the the term es la leche before. In Spain can it be used negatively and positively as colmo is?

You probably know that leche alone is quite vulgar here. In English
cream is, but it's only vulgar as a verb.

Rusty May 01, 2008 07:51 AM
I can't think of a phrase using milk that means last straw, height, epitome, or brim.

I wanted to add that the vulgarity associated with milk and cream, as Poli mentioned, is not widespread. We say (and buy) milk and cream all the time without thinking about the possibility that it may be taken the wrong way (that it may seem vulgar to some). There are many words that have both a good and a vulgar meaning.

Alfonso May 01, 2008 08:14 AM
Poli, eres la leche ;), no puedo entender esta corrección:
Quote:
It's really tempting to think that today's daily leche and Jane's post about el colmo have the same meaning. :bad:daily word, leche, to Jane's today post, el colmo, as::bad:
You can use eres la leche, esto es la leche, positively or negatively. In both cases you are being a little vulgar, but can be funny not being serious all the time.

Tomisimo May 01, 2008 09:30 AM
I personally have never heard es la leche used in this context before. This usage may be restricted to Spain, although my main experience has been with Mexican Spanish.

poli May 01, 2008 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7455)
It's really tempting to link this daily word, leche, to Jane's today post, el colmo, as:
  • Es el colmo.
  • Es la leche.
... mean the same, with the latter being vulgar, and the former not. Do you use it the same way in other Hispanic countries?
__________________________________________________ _________
I never heard it either, David. I deal with people from other parts of Latin America and I haven't heard them use it use it either.
__________________________________________________ ___________
A clarified correction:
I'm tempted to link today daily word, leche to Jane's post aboutel colmo.
.Es la leche
.Es el colmo
The former is vulgar. The latter is not. Is the term es la
leche used in other Spanish speaking countries?

This time I corrected your question as close a possible to the way you wrote the sentence. Is the term es la leche truly vulgar, or is it meerly slang?

Iris May 01, 2008 10:21 AM
Talking about milk, I've always been intrigued by the use of the Spanish word in La Leche League, I wonder why they haven't translated the whole thing.

Tomisimo May 01, 2008 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iris (Post 7508)
Talking about milk, I've always been intrigued by the use of the Spanish word in La Leche League, I wonder why they haven't translated the whole thing.
La Leche League doesn't really have anything to do with the Spanish language. They try to promote breastfeeding and to support breastfeeding mothers. For some reason they decided to use a foreign word in the name of their organization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Early in the organization's history, local newspapers rejected meeting notices that used the words breastfed and breastfeeding, calling them inappropriate for family publications. The name comes from the two-syllable Spanish word, "leche" (pronounced leh-cheh) meaning "milk". It was inspired by a shrine in St. Augustine, Florida, with the title of `Nuestra Senora de la Leche y Buen Parto” or “our Lady of Happy Delivery and Plentiful Milk”.

poli May 01, 2008 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 7469)
I can't think of a phrase using milk that means last straw, height, epitome, or brim.

I wanted to add that the vulgarity associated with milk and cream, as Poli mentioned, is not widespread. We say (and buy) milk and cream all the time without thinking about the possibility that it may be taken the wrong way (that it may seem vulgar to some). There are many words that have both a good and a vulgar meaning.
Rusty,
Of course that's true, but the verb to cream is quite impolite and the noun
leche not milk can have a very vulgar context

Poli

Rusty May 01, 2008 11:23 AM
Agreed.

Elaina May 01, 2008 12:52 PM
I've never heard of "leche" being used in a vulgar way. Live and learn!!

Elaina
:rolleyes:

Alfonso May 01, 2008 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poli (Post 7507)
Is the term es la leche truly vulgar, or is it meerly slang?
It's hard to answer this question. I would say it's softly vulgar, but not slang, as everybody might use it in a specific context.
I don't tell you this for you to use it at first chance (or do I?;)). But, If you hear in Spain: Ese tío es la leche or esta peli es la leche... don't think it's got something to do with milk...
Anyway, it's quite common and not so vulgar as other expressions meaning the same.

Iris May 01, 2008 04:18 PM
I agree with Alfonso. I mean, you wouldn't use it if you were having dinner with the Queen, but in everyday situations people say it all the time. Sometimes I say "Eres la leche en polvo" (a more elaborate version...).

poli May 01, 2008 05:59 PM
I spoke to a Colombian friend who laughed saying he hadn't heard the expression in years, but in his country they sometimes say "estás de la leche" when somebody does something really good like scoring a goal.

Thanks for being so informative

Alfonso May 02, 2008 03:18 AM
An inquisitive question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by poli (Post 7461)
It's really tempting to think that today's daily leche and Jane's post about el colmo have the same meaning. :bad:daily word, leche, to Jane's today post, el colmo, as::bad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by poli (Post 7507)
A clarified correction:
I'm tempted to link today daily word, leche to Jane's post about el colmo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7455)
It's really tempting to link this daily word, leche, to Jane's today post, el colmo, as...
I'm really sorry I'm still thinking about the reasons of your corrections, Poli. I can't see it!

poli May 02, 2008 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7455)
It's really tempting to link this daily word, leche, to Jane's today post, el colmo, as:
  • Es el colmo.
  • Es la leche.
... mean the same, with the latter being vulgar, and the former not. Do you use it the same way in other Hispanic countries?
I understand what you wrote but it's chapurreado. Here's a better way of saying it keeping as many words you originally chose as I could:
I am tempted to link todays daily word leche to Jane's post about
el colmo.
Consider the following two phrases:

Es la leche
Es el colmo

They mean the same, but the former is vulgar and the latter isn't.
Are both terms used in other Spanish-speaking countries?
(You could also say"they both mean the same with the former being
vulgar and the latter no vulgar at all)

Other words for colmo in English:
The final word in elegance. can you use la ultima palabra en elegancia?
The very model of ...
The paradigm of ... (not often used)

Alfonso May 02, 2008 02:36 PM
I'm sorry, but I still can't see why these syntagmas are not correct:
  • It's really tempting to do something.
  • Jane's today post.
  • Hispanic countries.

Tomisimo May 02, 2008 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7578)
I'm sorry, but I still can't see why these syntagmas phrases are not correct:
  • It's really tempting to do something.
  • Jane's today post.
  • Hispanic countries.
I'd say that the first and third are fine. For the middle one, you'd have to say Jane's post from today or the post Jane wrote today. Oh, and in English a sintagma is simply a phrase. (phrase does not equal sentence, unlike frase y oración en Spanish)

Alfonso May 03, 2008 09:41 AM
Thanks a lot, David. That's really clear. By the way, I found syntagma as an English term in Tomísimo Dictionary, but not in Merrian-Webster.
Modification: It wasn't at Tomísimo Dictionary where I found it, but at dictionary.com, here. And the ie English corrector allows it.

Iris May 03, 2008 10:37 AM
I think the Tomísimo dictionary was having a bad day. As far as I know that word doesn't exist. But let me check:...doesn't appear in my very fat dictionary.

Iris May 03, 2008 10:40 AM
So, it wasn't the Tomísimo dictionary, but Alfonso that was having a bad day.:p

Tomisimo May 03, 2008 11:02 AM
Well, I don't know. I've studied some linguistics, and I've never heard the term syntagma. According to Wikipedia, Syntagma refers to the Greek Constitution. Wikipedia also mentions Syntagmatic analysis.

Alfonso May 03, 2008 11:14 AM
OK, David. Nevertheless, syntagma is an almost non changed Greek word you can use for linguistic proposals.
Sure, some English or American linguistic school used it.
But, of course, the distinction you made between phrase and sentence is enough to know what we talk about.
On the other hand, sintagma is very common in Spanish, as you said, as we usually don't distinguish between frase and oración.

Iris May 03, 2008 11:19 AM
I also found syntagm. And there is another word related to these two: clause for the Spanish proposición.

Alfonso May 03, 2008 11:29 AM
In Spanish you can also say cláusula or proposición. But these are not the same as sintagma.

Sintagma: ... con Perico.
Proposición: ... que te marches con Perico.
Oración: No quiero que te marches con Perico.

Iris May 03, 2008 11:32 AM
I didn't say they were the same, teacher.

Alfonso May 03, 2008 11:36 AM
I didn't mean that, Iris. Sorry if I expressed it wrongly, but I know you didn't. ;)

Iris May 03, 2008 11:38 AM
Apology accepted.:)

Alfonso May 03, 2008 11:42 AM
By the way, I edited the syntagma discussion Wikipedia page. Let's see what happens.

Iris May 03, 2008 11:46 AM
Why do you always have to say that your English is not good enough? Don't put yourself down. I'm here to do that myself...

Tomisimo May 03, 2008 03:35 PM
Ok, I found syntagma in a regular dictionary and it means a syntactic element. Thanks Alfonso. It's a new word for me.

poli May 05, 2008 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7455)
It's really tempting to link this daily word, leche, to Jane's today post, el colmo, as:
  • Es el colmo.
  • Es la leche.
... meaning the same, with the latter being vulgar, and the former not being vulgar (former / latter phrases need to be balanced or they will sound broken.There are less awkward ways of writing writing this, but my my correction here is less intrusive. Additionly, referring to the latter first and the former later is bad form--not quite cantiflando but getting there . Do you use it the same way in other Hispanic countries?
Regarding "hispanic countries". I believe hispanic is an incorrect word choice although it my be technically correct and a matter of symantics. Nevertheless, it fees wrong. Example: Cuban people are hispanic because they are Spanish-speaking, but Cuba is not an hispanic country. Austrians are germanic for the same reason. Austria is not a germanic country but it is a German-speaking country. The people Turmenistan may be Turkic, but Turmenistan is not a Turkik country unless it is owned by Turkey, and it is not.

Iris May 05, 2008 07:15 AM
To me Hispanic doesn't mean that it belongs to Spain, but that it shares the same language, heritage and cultural roots.

Alfonso May 05, 2008 07:18 AM
Poli, regarding ... with the latter being vulgar, and the last not, you are correcting your correction, as you can see following the link below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by poli (Post 7461)
...
Regarding Hispanic countries, that is a political correction I don't share.

Thanks a lot for your effort, and I am not kidding. ;)

poli May 05, 2008 08:07 AM
You acked me to to clarify my corrections several times. Each time I tweeked it a little bit more. Regarding the former/latter thing: refer to later corrections I made and you will note that I have not corrected my
English but yours. As far as "hispanic countries" is concerned, technically
it may be correct, but apolitically and honestly the term Spanish-speaking nations sounds less odd.

Poli
.

Alfonso May 05, 2008 09:32 AM
I'm sorry Poli. I'm a bad person, I know. ;) To me it's clear who proposed the phrase in question, but I think it doesn't matter.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that it's not easy to correct, and that one need to leave aside his own idiolect to consider what might be right and what is wrong in an other's text. For example, the question about Hispanic countries.
OK, it's perfect if you consider this expression a little odd, or you don't agree its political connotations. But, google it:

Hispanic countries: 191.000 entries.
Spanish speaking nations: 28.000 entries. (this one is the last one you proposed).

And:
268.000 de "Spanish speaking countries". (0,68 segundos)

You, bad boy, tried to exchange my Hispanic countries (pointed with 191.000 entries) with your Spanish speaking nations (28.000 entries).

Three possibilities are correct. Is one of them odd? Maybe Spanish Speaking nations... Poli's famous choice.

I know, I welcome all corrections, but it's important to follow some rules for the corrections to be worthwhile: to be as less invasive as possible, to be accurate, not to change the nuance of the text you are correcting, to think that you don't really need to change what is OK in some part of the world, to explain all corrections which are not grammatical (because the very first thing the learner thinks when he sees a corrections is that the grammar is wrong), etc.

I think we have enough confidence to share what I mention. I hope you understand it. Nevertheless, I will understand if you tell me to mind my own business. That's what I'm doing ;).

... I think you will not get upset with me, but if you get: :mad:

poli May 05, 2008 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7682)
I'm sorry Poli. I'm a bad person, I know. ;) To me it's clear who proposed the phrase in question, but I think it doesn't matter.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that it's not easy to correct, and that one need(s) to leave (put) aside his own idiolect to consider what might be right and what is wrong in an other's text. For example, the question about Hispanic countries.
OK, it's perfect if you consider this expression a little odd, or you don't agree its political connotations. But, google it:

Hispanic countries: 191.000 entries.
Spanish speaking nations: 28.000 entries. (this one is the last one you proposed).

And:
268.000 de "Spanish speaking countries". (0,68 segundos)

You, bad boy, tried to exchange my Hispanic countries (pointed with 191.000 entries) with your Spanish speaking nations (28.000 entries).

Three possibilities are correct. Is one of them odd? Maybe Spanish Speaking nations... Poli's famous choice.

I know, I welcome all corrections, but it's important (to know that the following rules for corrections are worthwhile. :bad:to follow some rules for the corrections to be worthwhile:bad:: to be as uninvasive as possible, to be accurate, not to change the nuance of the text you are correcting, to think that you don't really need to change what is OK in some part of the world, to explain all corrections which are not grammatical (because the very first thing the learner thinks when he sees a corrections is that the grammar is wrong), etc.

I think we have enough confidence to share what I mention. I hope you understand it. Nevertheless, I will understand if you tell me to mind my own business,(because minding my business is exactly what I'm doing.)I think this is what you mean in not, explain further :bad:That's what I'm doing:bad: ;).

(... I think you will not get upset with me, but if you get:) :mad:
I'm not sure what you mean here, but I think it means:
I don't think you will get upset with me, but if you do get upset,then tough s..t.
Is that what you mean?:rolleyes:


Poli

Alfonso May 05, 2008 10:52 AM
Great, Poli. This is absolutely great. I understand all of your corrections. I'm sorry if I sounded demanding or rude. But I didn't have any other way to express something of my concern!
I owe you a couple of very good corrections and a couple / pair of drinks next time you came to Madrid.
Cheers!
Yes, I meant what you thought!

Tomisimo May 05, 2008 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7685)
I'm sorry if I sounded exigent or rude. But I hadn't got any other way to express something of my concern!
Exigent probably exists as an English word, but the best translation for exigente would be demanding. "I'm sorry if I sounded demanding or rude".

Also, "I hadn't got" sounds rather strange to me. I'd use "I didn't have" in this case.

I don't have any money :good: = I haven't got any money :good:
I didn't have any money :good: ≠ I hadn't got any money :bad:

I hadn't got OR I hadn't gotten any money sounds like I hadn't received any money to me.

Of course, this might be different in British English etc.

Alfonso May 05, 2008 03:40 PM
Thanks a lot, David, for your corrections and help!

poli May 05, 2008 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7685)
Great, Poli. This is absolutely great. I understand all of your corrections. I'm sorry if I sounded demanding or rude. But I didn't have any other way to express something of my concern!
I owe you a couple of very good corrections and a couple / :bad:pair:bad: of drinks next time you came to Madrid.
Cheers!
Yes, I meant what you thought!

Ten cuidado con la palabra pair. Pair esclusivamente refiere a cosas que van juntas como zapatos, pantalones, gemelos, etc. Usas couple correctamente. Couple tiene varios significados. En la forma de adjective couple significa dos o algunos. En la forma de nombre, significa una pareja y nunca un par.

Alfonso May 06, 2008 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poli (Post 7718)
Ten cuidado con la palabra pair. Pair exclusivamente se refiere a cosas que van juntas, como zapatos, pantalones, gemelos, etc. Usas couple correctamente. Couple tiene varios significados. En la forma de adjectivo couple significa dos o algunos. En la forma de nombre, significa una pareja y nunca un par.
  • Referirse a algo o a alguien: mencionar, señalar, querer decir... to mean, to refer, to relate, to report...
  • Referir una historia o un suceso: contar, narrar, etc.


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