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-   -   Meaning Changes - Ser vs. Estar (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=10557)

laepelba March 20, 2011 06:57 PM

Meaning Changes - Ser vs. Estar
 
I wonder if it would be a good idea to make a new sticky thread (or a vocabulary by theme thread?) looking at the changes in meaning that can happen when exchanging ser vs. estar + an adjective or participle. Let me give a few of the examples that I have run across for a start:

aburrido
ser aburrido = to be boring
estar aburrido = to be bored

callado
ser callado = to be soft-spoken
estar callado = to be silent

nervioso
ser nervioso = to be neurotic
estar nervioso = to be jittery

listo
ser listo = to be clever
estar listo = to be ready

vivo
ser vivo = to be vivacious
estar vivo = to be alive

atento
ser atento = to be courteous
estar atento = to be attentive

consciente
ser consciente = to be aware
estar consciente = to be conscious (awake)

decidido
ser decidido = to be resolute
estar decidido = to be decided

despierto
ser despierto = to be alert; sharp
estar despierto = to be awake

enfermo
ser enfermo = to be an invalid, sickly
estar enfermo = to be sick

interesado
ser interesado = to be self-serving
estar interesado = to be interested

loco
ser loco = to be mad, upset
estar loco = to be scatterbrained

rico
ser rico = to be rich
estar rico = to be delicious

torpe
ser torpe = to be slow-witted
estar torpe = to be clumsy, awkward

verde
ser verde = to be green
estar verde = to be unripe

grave
ser grave = to be serious
estar grave = to be seriously ill

moreno
ser moreno = to be dark-skinned
estar moreno = to be tanned

pálido
ser pálido = to be pale-skinned
estar pálido = to be pale

pesado
ser pesado = to be heavy
estar pesado = to be tiresome

seguro
ser seguro = to be safe
estar seguro = to be certain

Are these correct? What notable others have I forgotten? Thoughts?

Perikles March 21, 2011 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 107824)
Are these correct? What notable others have I forgotten? Thoughts?

They look good to me.

What about: agrio; blanco; bueno; ciego; decente; fuerte; guapo; joven; nuevo; oscuro; orgulloso; perezoso; rojo; soltero; viejo; cansado; considerado; despistado; divertido; parado ?

Some of these have the same meaning except that with ser it is permanent and with estar just temporary. Some have important differences for example guapo. :)

laepelba March 21, 2011 05:01 AM

Would you give the meanings of these with ser & estar.... I can't find all of them in my dictionaries..... :)

Perikles March 21, 2011 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 107837)
Would you give the meanings of these with ser & estar.... I can't find all of them in my dictionaries..... :)

*sigh*

agrio
ser agrio: to be sauer (by nature)
estar agrio: to taste sauer

blanco
ser blanco: to be white
estar blanco: to be pale (from fear)

bueno
ser bueno: to be good
estar bueno: to be healthy

ciego
ser ciego: to be blind (from birth)
estar ciego: to be blinded (by the sun)

decente
ser decente: to be decent respectable
estar decente: to look decent

fuerte
ser fuerte: to be strong
estar fuerte: to be good at something

guapo/a
ser guapo/a: to be handsome, pretty
estar guapo/a: to look nice (even though normally ugly)

joven
ser joven: to be young
estar joven: to look young

nuevo
ser nuevo: to be new
estar nuevo: to look new

oscuro
ser oscuro: to be dark (in a room)
estar oscuro: to be dark (without sun)

orgulloso
ser orgulloso: to be a proud person
estar orgulloso: to be proud of something

perezoso
ser perezoso: to be lazy by nature
estar perezoso: to be lazy (in a particular case)

rojo
ser rojo: to be red
estar rojo: to blush (with embarrassment)

soltero
ser soltero: to be unmarried
estar soltero: to be still unmarried

viejo
ser viejo: to be old
estar viejo: to look old

cansado*
ser cansado: to be tiring
estar cansado: to be tired

considerado*
ser considerado: to be considerate
estar considerado: to be highly regarded

despistado*
ser despistado: to be absent-minded
estar despistado: to be daydreaming, miles away

divertido*
ser divertido: to be entertaining
estar divertido: to be in a good mood

parado*
ser parado: to be shy
estar parado: to be out of work

*=past participles

:crazy::crazy: Please correct any mistakes, anyone

aleCcowaN March 21, 2011 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 107824)
nervioso
ser nervioso = to be neurotic
estar nervioso = to be jittery

vivo
ser vivo = to be vivacious
estar vivo = to be alive

rico
ser rico = to be rich
estar rico = to be delicious

torpe
ser torpe = to be slow-witted
estar torpe = to be clumsy, awkward

pesado
ser pesado = to be heavy
estar pesado = to be tiresome

ser nervioso = to be highly strung

ser vivaz = to be vivacious
ser vivo = to be clever, sharp

ser rico = to be rich
ser rico = to be tasty, delicious as a general opinion or on a regular basis ("estar rico" is only for today's meal)

ser torpe = to be clumsy, awkward (on a regular basis)
estar torpe = ??? (temporarily; when you are sedated or under the effect of alcohol)

ser pesado/ estar pesado ---> it can perfectly be the other way round.

poli March 21, 2011 07:48 AM

Some of the terms have different meanings according to what I hear.

Ser vivo means to be a real sharp character, but not in a positive way--like an accomplished cheater.

... and if I'm not mistaking :Ser pesado means to be a real bore. or a real pain in the neck.



Words mean different things in different contexts though.

aleCcowaN March 21, 2011 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poli (Post 107843)
Some of the terms have different meanings according to what I hear.

Ser vivo means to be a real sharp character, but not in a positive way--like an accomplished cheater.

We say "no es inteligente, pero es vivo", that is, smart enough to make his/her intelligence to work for him/her, what may include some ability to take advantage of any circumstance. If intelligence is the ability to perform complex reasonings and manage a huge bunch of information, un vivo hasn't a great deal. But, if intelligence is the ability to quickly adapt to the environment -social, natural, technological- un vivo is very intelligent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by poli (Post 107843)
... and if I'm not mistaking :Ser pesado means to be a real bore. or a real pain in the neck.

I agree.

laepelba March 21, 2011 05:48 PM

Thanks, all - I love the discussion!! :) (And thanks, especially, Perikles, for running those definitions for me/us!) :kiss:

aleCcowaN March 21, 2011 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 107840)
*sigh*

agrio
ser agrio: to be sauer (by nature)
estar agrio: to taste sauer


bueno
ser bueno: to be good
estar bueno: to be healthy

fuerte
ser fuerte: to be strong
estar fuerte: to be good at something

joven
ser joven: to be young
estar joven: to look young

nuevo
ser nuevo: to be new
estar nuevo: to look new

oscuro
ser oscuro: to be dark (in a room)
estar oscuro: to be dark (without sun)

perezoso
ser perezoso: to be lazy by nature
estar perezoso: to be lazy (in a particular case)


rojo
ser rojo: to be red
estar rojo: to blush (with embarrassment)

soltero
ser soltero: to be unmarried
estar soltero: to be still unmarried


viejo
ser viejo: to be old
estar viejo: to look old

considerado
ser considerado: to be considerate
estar considerado: to be highly regarded

despistado
ser despistado: to be absent-minded
estar despistado: to be daydreaming, miles away

divertido
ser divertido: to be entertaining
estar divertido: to be in a good mood

Those in blue just show basic features of ser and estar and many adjectives and verboids could be used.

About the rest

estar bueno = healthy? it may be edible, sane, high quality, or it may be "well".

ser fuerte = estar fuerte = to be good at something + basic distinction between ser and estar.

estar joven = to look and act younger that his/er age

estar nuevo = being in mint condition or without signal of being worn or wasted by use or time

estar o(b)scuro = .... with insufficient light, in shadows

ponerse rojo = to blush (with embarrassment)
estar rojo = to show a reddish visage, like bloated / to be sunburnt

ser viejo = estar viejo = to be old
estar viejo = to be too old / to look and act older than his/er real age

estar considerado = to be regarded as (it's an incomplete phrase)
estar bien considerado = ser bien considerado = to be highly-regarded

estar despistado = to be muddled

estar divertido = to be having fun

laepelba March 21, 2011 06:28 PM

"sauer" - is that a BrE spelling? In the US, we spell it: "sour".... :thinking:


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