Learning a Spanish Accent

[chileno]

Originally Posted by caliber1

Oops. I didn't mean to start a debate I promise. I meant nothing bad when I said I had a neighbor who is Mexican. I may have been able to word that better

Well, is your friend a Mexican or an American.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by chileno

Not sure what you are talking about, but, since you mentioned you are trying to get the Italian citizenship, and here I am assuming, I take it you have an Italian surname.

No. Cowan is my surname. And Alec what my family use to call me.

Originally Posted by chileno

I bet some people in Argentina, friends and others would call you "tano" (Italian) even though you were born in Argentina.

That never happened and it's unlikely for it to happen. I don't have the lookings nor the habits of a "tano".

Originally Posted by chileno

Well, are you Italian or are you Argentinian? You cannot be both.

What would have to do "having a citizenship" with "being" something. I can be as Italian as you can be 'American(USian)'. Nor more, nor less.

Originally Posted by chileno

When you say the rest of America, you're talking about the continent, clearly.

Estado unidense, is indeed clunky, moreover, it is wrong because Mexican could be called estado unidenses too, since there is that "Estados Unidos Mexicanos" in the name of their country.

Norteamericano isn't a choice either, since Canada and Mexico co-exist with America, in America (the continent)

OK, I'll lay it off now.

Originally Posted by poli

I'm sure I've written something similar to this before but most natives of the USA do not refer to themselves as Americans because of Teddy Roosevelt's or Monroe's expansionist visions, but because of a lack of a good easy way of saying it any other way. There is no term United Statesians. As of yet we have little other choice. When US citizens call themselves Americans, it may sound jingoistic(although some are) to the rest of America, but it's used mainly because of a lack of a better term. Of course in Spanish you may say estado unidense, but that sounds very clunky to me too. I use it nevertheless.

I understand but those still look as explanations after the fact, not a real causation, and very far from being justified. It just looks as "we chose a horrible name for our country; let's enslave a demonym"

Originally Posted by caliber1

Oops. I didn't mean to start a debate I promise. I meant nothing bad when I said I had a neighbor who is Mexican. I may have been able to word that better

Don't worry. It wasn't you. One both advantage and demand of learning a foreign language is that you must be aware of the prejudices hardcoded in your language and change them by the prejudices within the new one. This debate is just for that sake and it's a positive one as it fosters personal growth that is one of the more important side effects of leaning languages.

Originally Posted by poli

Italy isn't good either Alec, but at least they got rid of Il Cavaliere. In English we often say the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. From what I've seen, Argentina has a good standard of living.

It's not the economy. Economy goes well everywhere. It's the increasingly authoritarian ambience together with the social disorder and disruption that is sold as "democracy" and "tolerance". Just to start, government confiscated my retirement funds by law, retirement funds that I was forced by law to finance. I'm not good at the Continental China model -political and economical- that is developing here, specially when they may kill you in the streets and public transportation is a nightmare -what I don't think it's happening in China-. I'm not selling my rights and freedom for money, as many seem to do here.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

No. Cowan is my surname. And Alec what my family use to call me.



That never happened and it's unlikely for it to happen. I don't have the lookings nor the habits of a "tano".


What would have to do "having a citizenship" with "being" something. I can be as Italian as you can be 'American(USian)'. Nor more, nor less.

I see, so the ASSume and woulds are not enough.

No problem.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by chileno

I see, so the ASSume and woulds are not enough.

No problem.

I understood that as you were really asking those questions to me. If they were just rhetorical ones or you were trying to pull out some specific answer on my part, I wouldn't have replied at all .

[chileno]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

I understood that as you were really asking those questions to me. If they were just rhetorical ones or you were trying to pull out some specific answer on my part, I wouldn't have replied at all .

As I said, no problem.

[caliber1]

Originally Posted by chileno

Well, is your friend a Mexican or an American.

Yes . LOL. Technically, she would be American (US citizen), but going along with the discussion, why does she refer to herself as Mexican if she was born and raised in the States? I completely understand what Alec is saying and it does make sense, but this seems contradictory. Does that make sense ?

Angelica: Thanks for the info on the generational citizenship for Mexico. That is a very interesting fact. I had no idea. Thanks,

[chileno]

Originally Posted by caliber1

Yes . LOL. Technically, she would be American (US citizen), but going along with the discussion, why does she refer to herself as Mexican if she was born and raised in the States? I completely understand what Alec is saying and it does make sense, but this seems contradictory. Does that make sense ?

Angelica: Thanks for the info on the generational citizenship for Mexico. That is a very interesting fact. I had no idea. Thanks,

Because she is American!

[caliber1]

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

It's not the economy. Economy goes well everywhere. It's the increasingly authoritarian ambience together with the social disorder and disruption that is sold as "democracy" and "tolerance". Just to start, government confiscated my retirement funds by law, retirement funds that I was forced by law to finance. I'm not good at the Continental China model -political and economical- that is developing here, specially when they may kill you in the streets and public transportation is a nightmare -what I don't think it's happening in China-. I'm not selling my rights and freedom for money, as many seem to do here.

You might be interested in this article about an exodus of Europeans to countries such as Argentina. This is the result of the dire economic situation in Europe at the moment.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Perikles

You might be interested in this article about an exodus of Europeans to countries such as Argentina. This is the result of the dire economic situation in Europe at the moment.

Well, though it's not the topic, a lot of pretty informal people who doesn't stand work order and efficiency become here "the ideal German worker" just by contrast. Additionally, any woodyalenesque person may find Buenos Aires his or her place in the world. Like it's said in the movie "Cuento chino" when looking at a Chinese man stranded in Buenos Aires: "Mirá qué lindo pelo que tiene ¡Y claro! ¡Son 5000 años de cultura!", any old-world fellow will do great here, a place not exotic at all but allowing you to live as exotically as you need in order to call you and adventurer or a free spirit.

[poli]

In fact the growing lack of freedom of press in Argentina is an international current event both in US and European newspapers. Argentina has had a very dark political past, and if the past is any indication of the future, maybe even messed-up Italy would be a better place to live.

As a foreigner, it appears to me that Argentina can have a bright future. It has a huge middle class where education ia prized. It has vast unpopulated space and natural resources--both of which are the envy of the world.
-----------------------------------------------------------
A proposito, existe un substituto inglés para la palabra American cuando American significa estadounidense. La palabra de que escribo es un poquito antiguo pero valido hasta un punto. Es Yanks. El problema es que adentro del
mismo pais Yanks o Yankees pertenence a la gente del noreste del pais nada más. Un sudeño no es un Yank.

[aleCcowaN]

Getting Italian citizenship doesn't imply leaving to Italy, not even moving out here. It's just that a doppia citadinanza may be a very useful thing. I can't apply for a French or a British one because generations have passed and -even if legally possible- part of the 19th-century documentation was destroyed when a Presbyterian church in 'Pampa's Podunk' inexplicably burnt down to the ground around 1940, about the times my family most needed it to prove the link with a great great grand uncle of mine who moved to the States and died alone, having an oil company taken his farm in Oklahoma and extracted oil during years.

[A mí tampoco me gustaría que me dijeran que parezco yank cuando me pongo mi quepi sureño -mucho más cómodo que los gorros pochito o golfista que se usan acá- después de haber comido grits o tarta de batata]

[micho]

Originally Posted by caliber1

First of all, this is an excellent thread. I work with a lot of guys from Mexico who have had kids in the US. Their kids are raised in the US speaking Spanish at home and english pretty much everywhere else. They don't sound native in either language. I have a neighbor who is Mexican but born here in the US. We talk about Spanish sometimes, but she asked me if she had an accent. I was honest and said yes. She got mad because she wanted to speak like, as she put it, a gringo. LOL! I try my best to pronounce as best I can. I made a choice a long time ago not to be embarassed and that has helped me improve my pronciation. I still have a long way to go, but I wouldn't keep trying if I didn't think it was possible. Again, great thread!

Estoy completamente de acuerdo con esto: Vivo en una ciudad en el norte de España de 250000 habitantes y puedo distinguir a los que han nacido y vivido en un barrio determinado por el acento. Conozco a una Alemana que ha vivido en Madrid por mas de 30 años y sigue teniendo tremendo acento alemán, y esto se puede aplicar a los andaluces cuando salen de Andalucía: nunca pierden todo el acento. Los gallegos cantamos al hablar español y eso es muy dificil de eliminar.
Sé también que locutores y politicos hacen cursos de técnicas de dicción para eliminar los acentos locales, y que lo consiguen.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Los cursos de dicción a actores extranjeros para que adquirieran el acento mexicano solían ser la norma (de unos quince o veinte años para acá, ya no)... a algunos de nosotros nos sorprendió saber, hasta hace muy poco, la nacionalidad de gente como Amparo Rivelles, por ejemplo.

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by sparkling

How difficult is it? Hardly anyone who is foreign speaks perfect US accent. Is it possible to learn Spanish accent?

I think that is almost impossible, already you don't catch the accept of other country in your life, you will can speak it clearly but perfectly, I don't think so.