Liberty and Freedom

[JPablo]

Both words translate into Spanish as "Libertad".

Yet, when you have these two in English, even if synonyms, they give a nice emphasis to the concept... without being redundant, nor creating a pleonasm.

One option to translate it into Spanish is just use "libertad" but that lacks the mentioned emphasis.

Another is "libre albedrío y libertad", which may be a valid option, even if a bit highbrow...

Any other ideas?

(This subject of "freedom" reminds me the Orwell book 1984... and the whole subject of "propaganda" by means of re-defining words...) But that's another subject... as Big-Brother may be watching...

[irmamar]

I like what you suggested. I can't think of a better translation.

[JPablo]

Thank you, Irmamar...

Habrá que inventar la "librealeza" (realeza = kingship, kingdom) o algo por el estilo...

[Perikles]

Escrito originalmente por JPablo

Yet, when you have these two in English, even if synonyms, they give a nice emphasis to the concept... without being redundant, nor creating a pleonasm.

This seems to be a modern device which I find very annoying, often used by journalists, stringing two synonyms together which suggest a difference which doesn't exist, such as 'the government is worried and concerned' and so on. I personally think it denigrates language, but each to his own.

[JPablo]

Mmm... Thank you, but don't you mean, Modern as in from the 1600 on, right? You mean journalists of this 21st century, right?

Because Shakespeare uses things like,
"Eaten out of house and home"
"Double, double toil and trouble, fire burn and cauldron bubble"

"He contributed more phrases and sayings to the English language than any other individual - and most of them are still in daily use.

And while "house and home" may be pretty close in meaning, they still have a slight difference... (I take one thing is play-writing and poetry... and another journalism...)

Can someone lose his liberty by still keep his freedom? Or viceversa?
Or is this just a pointless argument? (Una discusión bizantina: ¿cuántos ángeles caben en la cabeza de una aguja?)

I take there are differences of usage,
As in "Freedom of speech" or other "freedoms". You would say these are "liberties" but you would not say "liberty of speech"? (Well, now that I check it, there are 1,200,000 for "liberty of speech", legal definition et al...)
Mmmh...

[Perikles]

Escrito originalmente por JPablo

Mmm... Thank you, but don't you mean, Modern as in from the 1600 on, right? You mean journalists of this 21st century, right?

Because Shakespeare uses things like,
"Eaten out of house and home"
"Double, double toil and trouble, fire burn and cauldron bubble"

"He contributed more phrases and sayings to the English language than any other individual - and most of them are still in daily use.

And while "house and home" may be pretty close in meaning, they still have a slight difference... (I take one thing is play-writing and poetry... and another journalism...)

I'm not having this . The examples you quote are not synonyms, so are completely different cases in which the two in juxtaposition work very well. Not only that, but there is a poetic issue as well.

house and home shades of meaning.
toil and trouble alliterative, poetic and not synonymous.
phrases and sayings these complement each other, because a phrase is not a saying, and a saying is not a phrase.

So yes, I mean 21st century journalists who have no sensitivity to the meanings of words.

[JPablo]

Thank you Perikles.

(Just to clarify it for me, I checked Random House Synonym study and I get what you say, in terms of having "freedom and liberty" as close a synonym as it could get.)

1. FREEDOM, INDEPENDENCE, LIBERTY refer to an absence of undue restrictions and an opportunity to exercise one's rights and powers. FREEDOM emphasizes the opportunity given for the exercise of one's rights, powers, desires, or the like: freedom of speech or conscience; freedom of movement. INDEPENDENCE implies not only lack of restrictions but also the ability to stand alone, unsustained by anything else: Independence of thought promotes invention and discovery. LIBERTY, though most often interchanged with FREEDOM, is also used to imply undue exercise of freedom: He took liberties with the text.

[pjt33]

Escrito originalmente por Perikles

This seems to be a modern device which I find very annoying, often used by journalists, stringing two synonyms together which suggest a difference which doesn't exist, such as 'the government is worried and concerned' and so on. I personally think it denigrates language, but each to his own.

Come off it. Hebrew poetry was using this kind of repetition 3000 years ago.

[JPablo]

Well, I see both viewpoints... one thing is poetry and verse and another journalism and prose...

Were the Summerians and the Akkadians writing like this too?

[pjt33]

Parece que sí. http://www.kingmixers.com/CLA196/FosterStyle012.pdf

[Perikles]

Escrito originalmente por pjt33

Come off it. Hebrew poetry was using this kind of repetition 3000 years ago.

Maybe, but that is poetry, and I thought we were talking of journalism. I was merely stating my suspicion that journalists are insensitve to language and don't realise what they are saying some of the time. Only a few days ago I heard on TV that there was a hightened terrorist threat, and that 'The UK, France and Germany had been singled out'.

[chileno]

Escrito originalmente por JPablo

Mmm... Thank you, but don't you mean, Modern as in from the 1600 on, right? You mean journalists of this 21st century, right?

Because Shakespeare uses things like,
"Eaten out of house and home"
"Double, double toil and trouble, fire burn and cauldron bubble"

"He contributed more phrases and sayings to the English language than any other individual - and most of them are still in daily use.

And while "house and home" may be pretty close in meaning, they still have a slight difference... (I take one thing is play-writing and poetry... and another journalism...)

Can someone lose his liberty by still keep his freedom? Or viceversa?
Or is this just a pointless argument? (Una discusión bizantina: ¿cuántos ángeles caben en la cabeza de una aguja?)

I take there are differences of usage,
As in "Freedom of speech" or other "freedoms". You would say these are "liberties" but you would not say "liberty of speech"? (Well, now that I check it, there are 1,200,000 for "liberty of speech", legal definition et al...)
Mmmh...

Hmmm House and home for me would mean casa y hogar

phrases and saying = frases y dichos

As to liberty and freedom, I guess liberty can also be taken as libertinaje.

I guess it would depend of context.

But then again, I might be wrong.

[JPablo]

Well, thank you, Chileno for your input. Always appreciated!