Construcciones impersonales, singular y plural

[Tyrn]

Hi,

https://burbujadelespanol.com/constr...-impersonales/

The subject is intuitive enough, yet I can't say where the singular or the plural form is required. For instance,

Le habían puesto los cuernos

Curiously, it's exactly the same in Russian. There's but one guilty person, yet the impersonal form is plural. A fact still more curious: it won't help. I still can't say whether it's se usan or se vive with any assurance. Is there a rule of thumb?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

When we use the third person plural, we kind of know who the subject is, although it's rather not mentioned.

From your examples:
- Le pusieron los cuernos. -> It was obviously a love partner, but we either don't know who they are or we prefer not to say.
- Dicen que el profesor lo sabe. -> Who says? The people who knows this situation. We can't name them all, so they all become one subject: "they".
- Llaman a la puerta. -> We don't know exactly who's knocking, but we do know there must be someone outside.
- En breve no admitirán pagos sin tarjeta. -> We do know who won't take these payments, even if we talk about businesses in general, financial institutions, etc.

In the cases with "se", the subject may not matter at all, or we don't really have any idea.
- Se dice que el profesor lo sabe. -> It doesn't matter who says so and we rather not name them.
- Se rumorea que Jorge y María se han separado.
- Se supone que la vacuna va a acabar con el virus. -> Notice here that if you use "suponen que..." you would have in mind a specific group of people who makes this assumption about the vaccine, but the example uses "se supone", because there are many groups of people who either have proof or are convinced about the vaccine.

Let me know if you have more questions, I know this can be confusing.

[Tyrn]

Thank you very much!

¿Cómo se usan las Oraciones Impersonales?

Where does it belong in your binary system?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Impersonal constructions are very far from being a binary system.
This last sentence is an example of the "voz pasiva refleja", and I find it very hard to explain, because it more or less overlaps with impersonal sentences, and this is hard even for native speakers.

While in the "voz pasiva" there is something/someone affected by something or someone else, in the "voz pasiva refleja" there is a "sujeto paciente" who receives the action of the verb, and unlike the impersonal sentences (where we don't know anything about the subject), the verb agrees with the passive subject:
- Se vende ropa.
- Se venden zapatos.

- Se solicita ayudante.
- Se solicitan cocineros.

- No se permite fumar.
- No se permiten mascotas.

- El secreto se sabrá pronto.
- Todos los secretos se sabrán pronto.

- Las oraciones impersonales se usan cuando no conocemos quién es el sujeto, o es irrelevante. [This is a sentence with "voz pasiva refleja"]

- Se sabe que es una voz pasiva refleja, cuando sabemos quién es el sujeto que recibe la acción del verbo. [This is an impersonal sentence.]

Keep asking questions, I know this is pretty confusing. I have to check notes and books on this topic all the time.

[Tyrn]

I'm quite satisfied with your explanation. Still, it's just like in Russian My personal trouble is, I'm no grammarian. As a native speaker, I just know that this or that is so and so. I can't explain why. So I have to check the Spanish reality a tientas. Sometimes I find it very convenient, but it always takes a bit of slogging, no matter what. Thanks!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Not being a grammarian helps with fluency. You just learn things as they are and even more if they relate to your own native language. Just let the structure become "a part of you", without thinking too much about it. I usually explain structures with their names, because I learn better that way, but if you prefer fewer grammar categories, let me know.