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¡¡Todavía los pronombres me hacen sufrir!!This is the place for questions about conjugations, verb tenses, adverbs, adjectives, word order, syntax and other grammar questions for English or Spanish. |
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#1
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¡¡Todavía los pronombres me hacen sufrir!!
Uyyyy!! I am still struggling with the "le/la/lo" DO and IO pronouns. I know I have asked about this before. And I'm still not getting it......
For the most part, I understand what is the DIFFERENCE between Indirect Objects and Direct Objects. And I know which pronouns to use when it is obvious to me which pronoun is being called for. (For example, it is OBVIOUS to me that "Give it (la carta) to me" would be "Dámela", whereas it also makes sense that "John gave her the present" would be "Juan le dio el regalo".) But there are many times when I simply can't figure out if I am looking at a direct object or an indirect object. So the other day, my tutor gave me two lists to look at. She is Mexican and is having difficulty telling me how to determine something that just comes so naturally to her. Some restrictions on the conversation: (1) let's only discuss examples with female DO/IO's ... it seems easier for me to understand, and (2) please give me a Latin American perspective, because I am aware that there is this "leismo" that is used in Iberian Spanish and I think it may have led to some of my confusion.... THANKS. The two lists are as follows: Quote:
THANK YOU for trying to help me wrap my brain around this............ !!
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- Lou Ann, de Washington, DC, USA Específicamente quiero recibir ayuda con el español de latinoamerica. ¡Muchísimas gracias! |
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#2
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A generalization:
An indirect object receives the direct object from the subject so try adding a direct object to your example sentences: Le pagan dinero - dinero is the direct object Le explican el problema - el problema is the direct object Le escriben una carta - una carta is the direct object etc. Or try making the sentence into a question What do they give her? - a present You can't do this if the girl is the direct object: What do they kiss her? What do they see her? I hope this helps. Maybe somebody a little bit more linguistically knowledgeable might improve this a bit (edit: or a lot).
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¡Qué viva Colombia! Last edited by Peter; July 04, 2012 at 07:59 AM. |
#3
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I pay her (money) ---> Money is paid.
I kiss her ---> She is kissed. You may say "a kiss was given to her", but a kiss is not really a thing but an handle to name an action. [Careful with ayudar]
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#4
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Okay - I will continue to try to run with that thinking. Thanks to both of you!!
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- Lou Ann, de Washington, DC, USA Específicamente quiero recibir ayuda con el español de latinoamerica. ¡Muchísimas gracias! |
#5
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Quote:
Hey - how could you think they were not different? "I kiss her" is a clear example of a transitive verb with 'action' moving from the subject to the direct object. Like "I hit her", "I like her" and so on. But "I pay her" is missing the direct object, because it is shorthand for "I pay ($100?) to her". IF she were the direct object, you would be trafficking people! Does that help? |
#6
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I understand what you are saying about having a tutor. The real goal was the regular conversation with a native speaker. And that is our primary objective. But I am making SO MANY errors with DO's and IO's (and other things) that we tend to discuss the grammar points as well as just having conversation....
You're right, also, about the thinking on DO/IO stuff ... I just wrote a message to my tutor in which I added the following (in italics): Quote:
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- Lou Ann, de Washington, DC, USA Específicamente quiero recibir ayuda con el español de latinoamerica. ¡Muchísimas gracias! |
#7
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That's a good technique - if you can ask yourself ¿Qué? in each sentence, and you come up with an object not mentioned, then the other one is an indirect object. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's a good start.
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#8
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"La regañan" ¿A QUIÉN regañan?
"La besan" ¿A QUIÉN besan? "La ven" ¿A QUIÉN ven? "La ayudan" ¿A QUIÉN ayudan? "La extrañan" ¿A QUIÉN extrañan? When you know what question to ask, you have the answer, whether you are Iberian or Argentinean... or learned your Spanish in Mindanao... You can have the two questions: ¿A QUIÉN? ¿QUÉ? I take you can figure which one is for DO and which one for IO... (Hope that helps...)
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Lo propio de la verdad es que se basta a sí misma, aquel que la posee no intenta convencer a nadie. "An enemy is somebody who flatters you. A friend is somebody who criticizes the living daylights out of you." |
#9
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Pablo - the only difficulty I have with that thinking, though, goes back to the question about "I pay her" and "I kiss her".... To me, I could say "¿A quién pago?" y "¿A quién beso?". But one would be "LE pago" and the other "LA beso".......... ??
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- Lou Ann, de Washington, DC, USA Específicamente quiero recibir ayuda con el español de latinoamerica. ¡Muchísimas gracias! |
#10
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¿Qué le pago a quién? It's not either DO or IO.
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