Ask a Question

(Create a thread)
Go Back   Spanish language learning forums > Spanish & English Languages > Grammar


La voz pasiva frente a la voz activa

 

This is the place for questions about conjugations, verb tenses, adverbs, adjectives, word order, syntax and other grammar questions for English or Spanish.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 05, 2020, 09:29 AM
BobRitter's Avatar
BobRitter BobRitter is offline
Pearl
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pensacola, FL. USA
Posts: 287
Native Language: English
BobRitter is on a distinguished road
La voz pasiva frente a la voz activa

Tratando de entender el voz pasivo versos el voz activo.

¿Es verdad que en el voz pasiva no hay un subjeto?

Por ejemplo:

Se ha establecido un acuerdo unilateral.
A unilateral agreement has been established.
Subjeto: No hay specifica.
Objeto: acuerdo
Verbo: establecido

He/Has/Ha/Hemos/Han establecido un acuerdo unilateral.
I/you/etc have established.......
Subjeto: I/you/etc. Aqui hay un subjeto específica
Objeto: acuerdo
Verbo: establecido

Como siempre gracias a todos por tu ayuda.
__________________
Viejo y Gruñón, Pero Adorable.
Old and Grumpy, But Lovable
Reply With Quote
   
Get rid of these ads by registering for a free Tomísimo account.
  #2  
Old April 05, 2020, 04:09 PM
AngelicaDeAlquezar's Avatar
AngelicaDeAlquezar AngelicaDeAlquezar is offline
Obsidiana
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 8,429
Native Language: Mexican Spanish
AngelicaDeAlquezar is on a distinguished road
This is going to be a long answer, but bear with me.

Your example is not exactly the "voz pasiva". This is rather the "voz pasiva refleja".
This is very complex to explain, because we have many things involved in the examples you found, because the translations tend to be pretty much the same in English, and because this is horribly confusing for native speakers as well, but I'll try to give many examples. Do not be afraid to ask any questions you need to ask until it's clear for you, Bob.

The passive voice in Spanish is exclusively formed by the verb "ser" + "past participle", and it is not that there is no subject, but rather that the subject is implicit in the sentence. Also if you can tell by whom the action is being performed, then it is the passive voice.

- Un acuerdo unilateral ha sido establecido (por el presidente).
A unilateral agreement has been established (by the president).

- La casa fue restaurada (por los dueños).
The house was restored (by the owners).

- Los niños son vacunados (por enfermeras) en el hospital.
The children are vaccinated (by nurses) in the hospital.

- Las actividades serán asignadas (por nuestros supervisores).
Activities will be assigned (by our supervisors).


Now, we also have a particular construction, which is called "voz pasiva refleja", which may be confused with impersonal sentences:

First of all, the sentences where there is no subject, the verb is conjugated in third person singular and there is a "se" involved, are impersonal sentences:

- Se pide a los clientes no entrar con mascotas.
Clients are asked not to come in with pets.

- Aquí se respeta a todo el mundo.
Here everyone is respected.

- Se te ve cansada.
One can perceive you look tired.

- No se debe dejar a los niños solos.
Children must not be left alone.

In these examples, there we don't know who asks the clients not to bring in dogs, who respects everyone, who sees the person is tired, or who must not leave children alone. All these are impersonal sentences, although grammatically, the translations have led me to have one in English.

Finally, at last, the "voz pasiva refleja". These sentences also have "se", but there is a "sujeto paciente", someone or something we can identify, always a third person, that can be singular or plural, and the verb agrees with the person. And, although the construction introducing an active subject is normally not found in common texts, in the "voz pasiva refleja", you might also know by whom the action has been performed.

In your example, if we write the sentence in the active voice, we would have a subject, a verb and a Direct Object:

- El presidente ha establecido un acuerdo unilateral.

When we change it to the "voz pasiva refleja", we find that the Direct Object from the active voice has become the "sujeto paciente" in the "voz pasiva refleja":
- Se ha establecido un acuerdo unilateral (por el presidente).

So, both in the "voz pasiva" and the "voz pasiva refleja", there is a subject, but it's not explicit.

The main differences are:

· The "voz pasiva" is constructed only with "ser" + "past participle", while the "voz pasiva refleja" is built with any verb.

· The "voz pasiva" may be built with any person, but the verb in the "voz pasiva refleja can only take a third person, either singular or plural.

· A sentence with "voz pasiva" never starts with "se".




More examples of "voz pasiva refleja":

- En México se comen muchos insectos.
In Mexico many insects are eaten.

- No se dicen malas palabras en la mesa.
One must not say bad words at the table.

- Se venden helados.
Ice-cream is sold here.

- Aquí se habla español.
Spanish is spoken here.

- Se oye un pájaro que canta.
A bird can be heard singing.
__________________
Ain't it wonderful to be alive when the Rock'n'Roll plays...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old April 09, 2020, 08:09 AM
babymetal babymetal is offline
Ruby
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 74
Native Language: Inglés
babymetal is on a distinguished road
Aquí se respeta a todo el mundo.

En un libro mio dice que no se puede usar la voz pasiva refleja con personas, pero, en inglés la voz pasiva puede ser impersonal también, bueno, que yo recuerde.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old April 09, 2020, 12:11 PM
AngelicaDeAlquezar's Avatar
AngelicaDeAlquezar AngelicaDeAlquezar is offline
Obsidiana
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 8,429
Native Language: Mexican Spanish
AngelicaDeAlquezar is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by babymetal View Post
En un libro mio dice que no se puede usar la voz pasiva refleja con personas
Esto es un poco complicado: efectivamente, cuando se habla de personas específicas, no se puede usar la voz pasiva refleja.


No puedo decir: "Se educan a los niños en casa", sino "se educa a los niños en casa" (impersonal). Hablo, o bien de todos los niños o de niños específicos.
Pero si elimino la idea de un grupo de personas específico, puedo decir "se educan niños" (voz pasiva refleja). Este enunciado querría decir que se ofrece el servicio de educar a cualquier niño o grupo de niños.


Cuando sé de quiénes estamos hablando, no digo: "Se buscan a las doctoras especialistas", sino "se busca a las doctoras especialistas" (impersonal). Pero sí puedo decir "se buscan doctoras especialistas" (voz pasiva refleja), para hablar de la contratación de cualquier doctora que esté disponible.
__________________
Ain't it wonderful to be alive when the Rock'n'Roll plays...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 10, 2020, 11:13 AM
babymetal babymetal is offline
Ruby
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 74
Native Language: Inglés
babymetal is on a distinguished road
He aquí lo que dice mi libro.

When an impersonal se structure refers to a human being and not an inanimate object, the grammatical function of the human being is that of the direct object of the verb. For this reason, the verb remains singular. In addition, the personal a is needed to mark the humans as the direct object.

Tus traducciones están bien dichas, pero hay que recordar que la voz pasiva en inglés también puede ser impersonal de vez en cuando. He aquí un ejemplo.

Se castiga a los criminales. (Criminals are punished)

Last edited by babymetal; April 10, 2020 at 11:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old April 13, 2020, 07:55 AM
BobRitter's Avatar
BobRitter BobRitter is offline
Pearl
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pensacola, FL. USA
Posts: 287
Native Language: English
BobRitter is on a distinguished road
Gracias babymetal.

Angelica;
Para esta larga respuesta voy a aumentar mi oferta de almuerzo a una cena cara y una película. Por supuesto, si esté bien con tu otro significante.

Vamos a tener que esperar, porque del virus. Espero que todo esté bien contigo y tu familia. Mantente fuerte. Esto también pasará.

¿Es OK el frase "con tu otro significante"?
In English your "significant other" is your husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend etc. but is probably a slang idiom.
__________________
Viejo y Gruñón, Pero Adorable.
Old and Grumpy, But Lovable
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old April 13, 2020, 09:59 AM
babymetal babymetal is offline
Ruby
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 74
Native Language: Inglés
babymetal is on a distinguished road
Si quieres más ayuda con esto, avísame. Llevo mucho tiempo estudiándolo.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old April 13, 2020, 12:16 PM
AngelicaDeAlquezar's Avatar
AngelicaDeAlquezar AngelicaDeAlquezar is offline
Obsidiana
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 8,429
Native Language: Mexican Spanish
AngelicaDeAlquezar is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by babymetal View Post
Tus traducciones están bien dichas, pero hay que recordar que la voz pasiva en inglés también puede ser impersonal de vez en cuando.
Eso es. Gracias.
Por eso es que, en general, prefiero llamarlas propuestas, más que traducciones. No tengo la formación para traducir y siempre tengo dudas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRitter View Post
¿Es OK el frase "con tu otro significante"?
In English your "significant other" is your husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend etc. but is probably a slang idiom.
La expresión equivalente para "significant other" es "pareja":
"Por supuesto, si está bien con tu pareja."

Gracias, Bob, definitivamente no necesitas compensar con nada, pero a mi esposo y a mí nos encantará pasar un rato contigo en la ciudad.
Un abrazo grande y tú también mantente sano y a salvo. Vendrán días mejores.
__________________
Ain't it wonderful to be alive when the Rock'n'Roll plays...
Reply With Quote
Reply

 

Link to this thread
URL: 
HTML Link: 
BB Code: 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Site Rules

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Educar la voz ROBINDESBOIS Vocabulary 1 August 21, 2018 07:02 PM
Leer en voz alta ROBINDESBOIS Idioms & Sayings 2 March 06, 2012 12:15 AM
Se me va la voz bellatter Translations 1 January 16, 2011 04:13 PM
Indignarse de viva voz katerina Idioms & Sayings 6 November 03, 2010 09:27 AM
No tiene ni voz ni voto ROBINDESBOIS Idioms & Sayings 4 September 28, 2009 09:24 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:44 AM.

Forum powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

X