Can most of the verbs be used with a reflexive meaning?

[ceri]

I am learning the reflexive verbs and reflexive pronouns now and they hurt... especially the verbs.
I've just learned to understand the following points, más o menos..
1. Actions perform on myself/my body parts are reflexive;
2. Emotional or mental actions are reflexive in the sense they never leave me.

And then I'm baffled when read about some points here and there in my textbook without further explanation given:
1. a reflexive verb will always be used with an animate subject;
(I get confused because in phrases such as
''se abrio it (the door)'' opened (by itself)
'les gusta acampar' they like camping
in both phrases, the subjects are quite inanimate.)
2. most any verb can be used with a reflexive meaning even if it is not officially a reflexive verb. (I am not even sure I understand what it means)

Please, are there some errors in my textbook or any ways to explain these points?

Muchas gracias!
Jess

[JPablo]

Seems like there may be some errors in your book.
In the example,
'les gusta acampar' they like camping
the subject is "they" and it refers to people.
In the example of the 'door' the "animate" subject, does not jibe (does not agree).
Yet, I believe the "se" particle may be broad use on "impersonal" or "inanimate" objects... like, "el muro se cayó" (the wall fell) "Se cayó la guitarra"
"Se rompió la cadena"
(All the above are INanimate.)
Not sure if I am answering your question fully, but double check your book, try to make some examples and let us know...

[Chris]

Now I'm just learning myself so I REALLY do not understand these but isn't a door animate? It can have an action performed on it and some of the doors in my house can close by themselves even though I want them open heh.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by JPablo

Seems like there may be some errors in your book.
In the example,
'les gusta acampar' they like camping
the subject is "they" ??? and it refers to people.

Hang on ... I hate to correct a native speaker, but it was my understanding that "me/te/le/etc. gusta(n)" doesn't mean "they like camping" exactly, but "camping is pleasing to them". That camping is the subject and they are the object. You could say "a ellos les gusta acampar", right?

[Rusty]

The examples you gave with inanimate subjects are not using the reflexive structures you're learning. Reflexive verbs do not include all verbs that are accompanied by a pronoun.

The sentence with 'se abrió' contains an example of the most common way to use the passive voice in Spanish. This is called the pasiva refleja.

The sentence with 'les gusta' contains an indirect object pronoun. This is no different than 'te digo' (I tell you).

Reflexive verbs are usually listed in the dictionary with a suffixed 'se'. These verbs will always be conjugated with the proper reflexive pronoun.

The statement about most any verb having a reflexive meaning even if it isn't a reflexive verb simply means that you can route the direction of the action back to yourself by using the 1st-person indirect or direct object pronoun.
For example: ver (to see), is not a reflexive verb (there's no reflexive '-se' suffix)
lo veo = I see him
les veo = I see them
me veo = I see myself (reflexive, in that the subject and the object are one in the same)

peinarse (to comb one's hair), is a reflexive verb (it has the '-se' suffix)
me peino = I comb my hair
se peina = you comb your hair | he combs his hair | she combs her hair
nos peinamos = we comb our hair

[ceri]

Gracias, JPablo.
That answers part of my questions! So the subject/object can be either animate or inanimate.

Originally Posted by JPablo

In the example of the 'door' the "animate" subject, does not jibe (does not agree).
Yet, I believe the "se" particle may be broad use on "impersonal" or "inanimate" objects... like, "el muro se cayó" (the wall fell) "Se cayó la guitarra"
"Se rompió la cadena"
(All the above are INanimate.)

Claro, Rusty! Si, tenés razón.
Those examples I gave are phrases I came upon myself, not from the textbook. I didn't know if they were using the reflexive verbs or not but they looked like that to me.
I don't think I've learned the pasiva refleja part yet but I am going to look it up in my grammar book.

Reflexive verbs do not include all verbs that are accompanied by a pronoun.
but reflexive verbs are always accompanied by a reflexive pronouns, verdad?

And thanks again for the explanation about the verb-having-a-reflexive-meaning part, I got it now!

Originally Posted by Rusty

The examples you gave with inanimate subjects are not using the reflexive structures you're learning. Reflexive verbs do not include all verbs that are accompanied by a pronoun.

The sentence with 'se abrió' contains an example of the most common way to use the passive voice in Spanish. This is called the pasiva refleja.

The sentence with 'les gusta' contains an indirect object pronoun. This is no different than 'te digo' (I tell you).

Reflexive verbs are usually listed in the dictionary with a suffixed 'se'. These verbs will always be conjugated with the proper reflexive pronoun.

The statement about most any verb having a reflexive meaning even if it isn't a reflexive verb simply means that you can route the direction of the action back to yourself by using the 1st-person indirect or direct object pronoun.
For example: ver (to see), is not a reflexive verb (there's no reflexive '-se' suffix)
lo veo = I see him
les veo = I see them
me veo = I see myself (reflexive, in that the subject and the object are one in the same)

peinarse (to comb one's hair), is a reflexive verb (it has the '-se' suffix)
me peino = I comb my hair
se peina = you comb your hair | he combs his hair | she combs her hair
nos peinamos = we comb our hair

[satchrocks]

Originally Posted by Rusty

The examples you gave with inanimate subjects are not using the reflexive structures you're learning. Reflexive verbs do not include all verbs that are accompanied by a pronoun.

The sentence with 'se abrió' contains an example of the most common way to use the passive voice in Spanish. This is called the pasiva refleja.

The sentence with 'les gusta' contains an indirect object pronoun. This is no different than 'te digo' (I tell you).

Reflexive verbs are usually listed in the dictionary with a suffixed 'se'. These verbs will always be conjugated with the proper reflexive pronoun.

The statement about most any verb having a reflexive meaning even if it isn't a reflexive verb simply means that you can route the direction of the action back to yourself by using the 1st-person indirect or direct object pronoun.
For example: ver (to see), is not a reflexive verb (there's no reflexive '-se' suffix)
lo veo = I see him
les veo = I see them
me veo = I see myself (reflexive, in that the subject and the object are one in the same)

peinarse (to comb one's hair), is a reflexive verb (it has the '-se' suffix)
me peino = I comb my hair
se peina = you comb your hair | he combs his hair | she combs her hair
nos peinamos = we comb our hair

So in the case of "les veo," why isn't the direct object (los) used? It seems to me that "les veo" would be translated "I see (at) them," whereas "los veo" would be ("I see them"), a statement that seems more direct in English.

[Rusty]

You're right! The phrase 'los veo' is correct. The verb takes a direct object, and los is the correct pronoun to use in that case.

Read up on leísmo, and its extension to the plural 3rd-person. That'll help you understand why you caught me switching to a pronoun that is used in some areas of the world (especially Spain). This is acceptable grammar in those areas (I was exposed to it often, but not in Spain), but it is important to teach the proper pronouns here in these forums. (I've been trying to be careful and only use the more widely accepted direct object pronouns.)

There are other dialectual variants called loísmo and laísmo. These were also widely used where I learned Spanish.