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An idiom is an expression whose meaning is not readily apparent based on the individual words in the expression. This forum is dedicated to discussing idioms and other sayings.


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  #11  
Old November 29, 2010, 03:42 AM
bwriter bwriter is offline
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The mis-spelling of 'artifact' was a typo. It's always artefact in the book.
I accept what you say regarding 'Que', Rusty, but I have to provide a response from Maria with which the average reader will immediately identify. So "Que" remains since most people remember Manuel from Fawlty Towers whilst very few non-Spanish speakers will recognise "¿Cómo?"
With regard to upside-down question marks, I suspect this would also upset the English speaking reader. But I will do more research on this. Ultimately it is something dictated to writers by the publisher.
I think I will replace all those dropped 'aitches'. There would be so many, the reader would find it tiresome. Similarly with the 'ee' sound as in 'theenk'. Also I can't help feeling it's a bit insulting.
I am confused by your comments on the 'th' sound. What could possibly replace it?
Finally, would anyone care to edit my chapter, altering Maria's speech where they feel it necessary?
I should also add: Please remember that, unlike you people, English is my first, and only, language. Like most Brits, I can just about ask for the bill in a Spanish restaurant and little more. So I really appreciate your efforts to explain things to me in a simple manner.
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  #12  
Old November 29, 2010, 03:44 AM
gracemayer gracemayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
There are perhaps several ways to say, "OK, you found me out," but I would say, "Bueno, me ha pillado." Wait for others to chime in.

You used both artifact and artefact in your post. Although both are valid spellings, I would probably stick with just one.

"¿Qué?" (notice the upside-down question mark and the accent mark) is used in some areas, but it would be more common to hear "¿Cómo?"

I see that María elides the 'h' in some words, but not in others. It would be a bit more convincing if there were some consistency.
The double-e in 'theenk' isn't necessary, because the 'i' in think is pronounced like the Spanish 'i'. However, the 'th' in 'think' is completely foreign to a Spanish speaker, so I would expect that part to be altered.
Adding pronunciation variations is OK, but it may be more effective to just pepper the dialog with a couple of Spanish words and phrases, like you did later in the story. This, and altering grammar, are the best devices in my opinion. You did well with, "I will make breakfast?" Equally good is, "Olive oil. It is good for the skin."
or even: "Olive oil. Is good for the skin." and am not sure in Menorca, but at least here in Mallorca, if someone woke up they might use the local "Mana?" instead of 'como?' or 'que?' (just an idea, tho' agree with bwriter that more English speaking readers will be familiar with 'Que?' ;-)

Last edited by gracemayer; November 29, 2010 at 03:47 AM.
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  #13  
Old November 29, 2010, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwriter View Post
I am confused by your comments on the 'th' sound. What could possibly replace it?
A 't'. One of the things I struggled with for a bit is that in words with Greek etymology the theta becomes a 't' in Spanish (e.g. teología for theology).

However, I think Rusty is being too American-centric (or seseo-centric) here. In large parts of Spain, which probably include the Balearic Islands (because the linguistically similar Valencian Community is included) they do have the 'th' sound of 'think' in a lot of words.
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  #14  
Old November 29, 2010, 03:32 PM
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I am being American-centric, to be sure. Most Spanish speakers on this side of the puddle (those that don't use the penisular pronunciation of the 'z') opt for a 't' or a 'd' sound when trying to pronounce 'think'. They also use the same sound for the 'th' sound in 'the', which is different than the one in 'think'.
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  #15  
Old November 29, 2010, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
I am being American-centric, to be sure. Most Spanish speakers on this side of the puddle (those that don't use the penisular pronunciation of the 'z') opt for a 't' or a 'd' sound when trying to pronounce 'think'. They also use the same sound for the 'th' sound in 'the', which is different than the one in 'think'.
Exactly, and to us, on this side, if we are told "pronounce it as la zeta española" most will understand.
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  #16  
Old November 30, 2010, 09:26 AM
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You people have been brilliant. It was a pleasure to meet you all. I have decided on the following rules to portray Maria as a Spanish speaker.
She will say 'Ope' rather than 'Hope'
Similarly she will say 'Per'aps' instead of 'Perhaps'
She will occasionally fumble for the appropriate word: Example: ...everyone will want to be with us in our…’ she cocked her head to one side ‘...worshiping? Is this what you say?’
And she will tend to construct her sentences in an un-British way. Example: When Keith asks her if she believes in spacemen, she answers:
‘It is not the question, whether to believe or not believe. When you ‘ave seen as I ‘ave seen, you will believe.’

Now, one final (I hope) question:
Do Spanish people really say Mehico? Or do they pronounce it as Mexico like us?
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  #17  
Old November 30, 2010, 10:20 AM
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@bwriter: Spaniards write "Méjico" and pronounce the "j" as a very hard English "h".
Mexicans write "Mexico" and pronounce it as a Spanish "j", just a bit softer.
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  #18  
Old December 02, 2010, 11:15 AM
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a spanish lady will:
drink milk with cacao or coffee
eat something sweet, as pjt33 says.
if not avaliable, something like:
a toast with butter and sugar
a toast with oliven oil
a toast with "jamón" /sausage,...
a toas with oil and tomato (as stated, only catalonian/balearic)
a toast with cheese
a toast with an omelette
always a toast, when no cookies/sweets avaliable
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  #19  
Old December 02, 2010, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sosia View Post
a toas with oil and tomato (as stated, only catalonian/balearic)
/Valencian. They eat pà amb tomate here too.
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  #20  
Old December 02, 2010, 01:03 PM
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Pa amb tomaquet... (in Catalunya) (amb una miqueta de pernil) [a little bit of Iberic ham...]
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