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  #1  
Old August 21, 2010, 02:52 PM
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Question Más que & Más de

From a different thread ( http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=8769 ), I am working on understanding the difference between "más que" and "más de".

I have thoroughly read everything you folks have sent my way, and I have read some other websites, etc. that I have found on the subject. I am still a bit confused.

I found the following examples about which I have questions:

About "más que":
- No
tiene más que 28 años. = He is not more than 28 years old.
Question: I see the explanation (in the other thread) that "Seguido de una expresión cuantitativa, esta construcción significa ‘solamente’". So the translation would be more accurately "He is only 28 years old.", right?

- Me duela más que antes. = This hurts me more than before.
Question: Unrelated to the "más que" - is there a quick/short answer (or referring thread) as to why this is subjunctive? If not, I'll drop it for now...


About "más de":

- Pesa más de lo que parece. = It's heavier than you think.
- Es más complicado de lo que tú crees. = It's more complicated than you think.
- Le pagaré el doble de lo que marque el taxímetro. = I will pay you twice what the meter reads.
- El viejo sabe del testigo más de lo que aparenta. = The old man knows of the witness more than it seems. (?? Still working on what this one means...)
- Me despierto varias horas antes de lo que solía. = I wake up several hours earlier than I used to.

NOTE: A couple of the websites I've been reading group words like "doble" and "antes" with the "más que/más de" question, that's why they're included here.
Question about the above five examples: They each contain "lo que", and I don't understand why "lo que" is necessary. When I try to say each of them without "lo que", they sound fine to me... But they also sound the same to me if I change "más de lo que" to just "más que".....
For example:
"Pesa más de lo que parece." ?=? "Pesa más que parece." (etc.)

- Les deseo muchos años más de felicidad. = I wish for you many more years of happiness.
- Quiero saber más de los dinosaurios. = I want to know more about dinosaurs.
- Nike Air: Un poco menos de dolor. = Nike Air: A little less hurt.

Question: These don't seem to be related to the original question because they're not comparisons, right? "More years" after today, "more knowledge" than what I have (not really a comparison...), and "less pain" than without these shoes (again, not really a comparison).... Am I right about these three?

Still trying to understand........ Thanks!!
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  #2  
Old August 21, 2010, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
- No tiene más que 28 años. = He is not more than 28 years old.
Question: I see the explanation (in the other thread) that "Seguido de una expresión cuantitativa, esta construcción significa ‘solamente’". So the translation would be more accurately "He is only 28 years old.", right?
Yes.

Quote:
- Me duela más que antes. = This hurts me more than before.
Question: Unrelated to the "más que" - is there a quick/short answer (or referring thread) as to why this is subjunctive? If not, I'll drop it for now...
Looks like a typo to me.

Quote:
"Pesa más de lo que parece." ?=? "Pesa más que parece." (etc.)
The second one means "It weighs more than it seems" but in a nonsensical way. It's attributing two independent actions: weighing and seeming; and then contrasting the amount or intensity with which the two are performed. If you really spell out what you mean it's "It weighs more than the amount it seems to weigh". English lets you elide a bit more than Spanish here.

Quote:
- Les deseo muchos años más de felicidad. = I wish for you many more years of happiness.
- Quiero saber más de los dinosaurios. = I want to know more about dinosaurs.
- Nike Air: Un poco menos de dolor. = Nike Air: A little less hurt.

Question: These don't seem to be related to the original question because they're not comparisons, right? "More years" after today, "more knowledge" than what I have (not really a comparison...), and "less pain" than without these shoes (again, not really a comparison).... Am I right about these three?
I think so, although personally I'd say "Quiero saber más acerca de los dinosaurios".
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  #3  
Old August 21, 2010, 03:12 PM
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Thanks, PJT! That's helpful. I'm still working on it..........
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  #4  
Old August 21, 2010, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
About "más que":
- No tiene más que 28 años. = He is not more than 28 years old.
Question: I see the explanation (in the other thread) that "Seguido de una expresión cuantitativa, esta construcción significa ‘solamente’". So the translation would be more accurately "He is only 28 years old.", right?
Right. "Más que" in this case, work together as a conjunction similar to "sino".
No hablo más que (sino) con tres personas. -> I don't talk but to three persons.
No hablo con más de tres personas. -> I don't talk to more than three persons.

En el concierto no había más que 100 personas. -> Only 100 people were at the concert.
En el concierto no había más de 100 personas. -> There were less than 100 people at the concert.


Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
- Me duele más que antes. = This hurts me more than before.
Question: Unrelated to the "más que" - is there a quick/short answer (or referring thread) as to why this is subjunctive? If not, I'll drop it for now...
Conjugation is obviously wrong, so be careful with your sources.


Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Question about the above five examples: They each contain "lo que", and I don't understand why "lo que" is necessary. When I try to say each of them without "lo que", they sound fine to me... But they also sound the same to me if I change "más de lo que" to just "más que".....
For example:
"Pesa más de lo que parece." ?=? "Pesa más que parece." (etc.)
No. "De lo que" is indispensable, since it's the pronoun of what you're talking about.
If you say "pesa más que parece", it would be a clumsy way to make a senseless statement: the thing weighs instead of seeming.



Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
- Les deseo muchos años más de felicidad. = I wish for you many more years of happiness.
- Quiero saber más de los dinosaurios. = I want to know more about dinosaurs.
- Nike Air: Un poco menos de dolor. = Nike Air: A little less hurt.
Question: These don't seem to be related to the original question because they're not comparisons, right? "More years" after today, "more knowledge" than what I have (not really a comparison...), and "less pain" than without these shoes (again, not really a comparison).... Am I right about these three?

Right, these are not comparisons, and not related to your original "studying object", but it's good to know the right preposition after "más" and "menos" for these cases (I guess).


Edit: Pjt beat me to reply, but one more opinion on it won't harm, I hope.
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  #5  
Old August 21, 2010, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
- Pesa más de lo que parece. = It's heavier than you think.
- Es más complicado de lo que tú crees. = It's more complicated than you think.
- Le pagaré el doble de lo que marque el taxímetro. = I will pay you twice what the meter reads.
- El viejo sabe del testigo más de lo que aparenta. = The old man knows of the witness more than it seems. (?? Still working on what this one means...)
- Me despierto varias horas antes de lo que solía. = I wake up several hours earlier than I used to.
No. "De lo que" is indispensable, since it's the pronoun of what you're talking about.
If you say "pesa más que parece", it would be a clumsy way to make a senseless statement: the thing weighs instead of seeming.

<-- I guess I don't see the purpose of the "lo que" in the sentence... What is the meaning? And is there every a situation where it would be "más que lo que..."?

Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
- Les deseo muchos años más de felicidad. = I wish for you many more years of happiness.
- Quiero saber más de los dinosaurios. = I want to know more about dinosaurs.
- Nike Air: Un poco menos de dolor. = Nike Air: A little less hurt.
Right, these are not comparisons, and not related to your original "studying object", but it's good to know the right preposition after "más" and "menos" for these cases (I guess).
<-- Well, it seems like the word "of" in English: more OF years, more OF knowledge, and more OF pain...

Edit: Pjt beat me to reply, but one more opinion on it won't harm, I hope.
Both yours and PJT's answers are helpful!! Thanks, both of you.

It seems that more often, "más que" is comparing nouns/noun phrases and "más de" is comparing either quantities or qualities... Would you explain to me the difference between these two sentences?
Su hermano pequeño es más alto que yo.
Es más complicado de lo que tú crees.
If I understood the use of que in the first and de in the second, it would be extremely helpful!

THANKS!!!
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  #6  
Old August 21, 2010, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Both yours and PJT's answers are helpful!! Thanks, both of you.

It seems that more often, "más que" is comparing nouns/noun phrases and "más de" is comparing either quantities or qualities... Would you explain to me the difference between these two sentences?
Su hermano pequeño es más alto que yo.
Es más complicado de lo que tú crees.
If I understood the use of que in the first and de in the second, it would be extremely helpful!

THANKS!!!
His younger brother is higher than me.

It is more complicated than what you believe.

The second one is more difficult to explain... since in English is wrong to say:

It is more complicated of what you believe.
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  #7  
Old August 21, 2010, 05:34 PM
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Right. The problem is that I know what they mean in English, but I don't understand the difference in Spanish. In English we say "more than" for both "más que" and "más de". I am working on when to use "que" and when to use "de".
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  #8  
Old August 21, 2010, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Right. The problem is that I know what they mean in English, but I don't understand the difference in Spanish. In English we say "more than" for both "más que" and "más de". I am working on when to use "que" and when to use "de".
Ok, so now comes forth the knowledge you have been seeking all along. DO, IO etc...

Es más difícil de lo que (tú) crees.

It is more difficult than what you think.

Es más difícil que (tú) crees.



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  #9  
Old August 21, 2010, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Would you explain to me the difference between these two sentences?
Su hermano pequeño es más alto que yo.
Es más complicado de lo que tú crees.
If I understood the use of que in the first and de in the second, it would be extremely helpful!
I think maybe you missed my original question. I'm trying to figure out when to use "más que" and when to use "más de".
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  #10  
Old August 21, 2010, 09:52 PM
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@Lou Ann: This is your original question, so it seems none of our answers has been any "helpful" to you, despite what you have said. (?)
I think you should take a slow look to replies, examples and explanations in all the relevant threads (Particularly, I think Perikles quoted a great explanation (post #15) within the Hacer o estar thread).

"Lo" substantivizes "your" perception (what you think -> lo que tú crees).
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