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Negarse en redondo

 

An idiom is an expression whose meaning is not readily apparent based on the individual words in the expression. This forum is dedicated to discussing idioms and other sayings.


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  #11  
Old October 27, 2009, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poli View Post
example: to fully disagree (sounds better but according to the gramatical law it's incorrect.
to disagree fully(but it sound wierd)
I suppose it is what you are used to. To me, to disagree fully sounds completely natural, but to fully disagree sounds really awful.
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  #12  
Old October 27, 2009, 03:07 PM
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I suppose it is what you are used to. To me, to disagree fully sounds completely natural, but to fully disagree sounds really awful.
I certainly can get used to not splitting my infintitives--or should I have said I can certainly get used to -- or I can get certainly used to
What is your opinion of dangling prepositions? I assume you are more tolerant of those.
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  #13  
Old October 27, 2009, 03:57 PM
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Decir que no se puede partir un infinitivo es una tontería preceptista rechazada por autoridades como los hermanos Fowler y grandes autores como George Bernard Shaw (que no dudó en llamar idiota a un subeditor que no lo permitía) y Oscar Wilde. La realidad es que hacerlo es muy común y la mayoría de los hablantes nativos no encontraría rara, por ejemplo, la frase I'm going to quickly pop down to the shops.
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  #14  
Old October 28, 2009, 01:31 AM
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OK, I understand (maybe it's more common in American English ). Thanks everybody and Perikles for your corrections

But now... what are those "dangling" prepositions?
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  #15  
Old October 28, 2009, 02:41 AM
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What is your opinion of dangling prepositions? I assume you are more tolerant of those.
I guess you must mean prepositions which do not stand before a noun, but left 'dangling' such as

What did you do that for?
What are you going to stick that label on?
I don't know which platform my train leaves from.

Nobody sane would say

On what are you going to stick that label?

even though it is theoretically correct. There is the well-known sentence:

A preposition is the wrong word to end a sentence with.

Is that what you mean by 'dangling'?
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  #16  
Old October 28, 2009, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
OK, I understand (maybe it's more common in American English ).
It's common everywhere. None of my examples above is American.

Quote:
But now... what are those "dangling" prepositions?
Prepositions at the ends of sentences.
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  #17  
Old October 28, 2009, 06:11 AM
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Perikles tiene razón. En general es mejor no meter un averbio entre to y
el verbo. Es contra una ley gramática y suena mál a la gente que hace caso a las reglas gramáticas. No obstante hay gente que mete
el adverbio o sea ilegalmente en inglaterra tambien, porque inglés como todos los idiomas es muy flexible.

Me parece (pero no estoy seguro) que se ve esta infracción en documentos oficiales desde los años de Thomas Jefferson.
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  #18  
Old October 28, 2009, 06:23 AM
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Es contra una ley gramática
Cuando una persona decide por su propia autoridad escribir una ley de gramática que está en contra de la manera de hablar de la mayoría, ¿quién tiene la razón?
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Old October 28, 2009, 07:09 AM
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Cuando una persona decide por su propia autoridad escribir una ley de gramática que está en contra de la manera de hablar de la mayoría, ¿quién tiene la razón?
Entiendo tu argumento. Los idiomas siempre están en metamórfosis. Sin embargo me gusta saber y tener la opción de seguir las reglas para agarrar algo sólido en un mundo tan líquido como el mundo de idioma. Hay gente que no tiene esa
opcion porque no saben las reglas.
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  #20  
Old October 28, 2009, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by poli View Post
Entiendo tu argumento. Los idiomas siempre están en metamórfosis. Sin embargo me gusta saber y tener la opción de seguir las reglas para agarrar algo sólido en un mundo tan líquido como el mundo de idioma. Hay gente que no tiene esa opcion porque no saben las reglas.
Pues no creo que hayas entendido mi argumento. Si una construcción lingüística aparece en documentos formales durante dos siglos, es utilizada por gente en la calle y por escritores profesionales, y es defendida explícitamente por éstos, decir que es una regla del idioma que esa construcción no se permite puede ser dos cosas: ignorancia o arrogancia. Las opiniones deben ajustarse a la realidad porque el revés es poco posible.
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