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Declinación de los sustantivos

 

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  #1  
Old April 24, 2013, 06:01 AM
Caramelita Caramelita is offline
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Declinación de los sustantivos

Hola,

¿Es cierto que los sustantivos declinan sólo en : género y número ?

por ej.

género- femenino - gata, masculino- gato
número - singular- gata/gato , plural- gatas/gatos
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  #2  
Old April 24, 2013, 06:38 AM
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Perikles Perikles is offline
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I'm not sure it is correct to say that nouns decline with gender. Gato is the epicene name for a cat of either sex. Perro is dog, again epicene, with perra for bitch, but this is not really a declination. Nouns only decline with a plural ending.

Adjectives, however, can decline with gender and number (only)

Let's see what Rusty says.
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Old April 24, 2013, 06:53 AM
Caramelita Caramelita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
I'm not sure it is correct to say that nouns decline with gender. Gato is the epicene name for a cat of either sex. Perro is dog, again epicene, with perra for bitch, but this is not really a declination. Nouns only decline with a plural ending.

Adjectives, however, can decline with gender and number (only)

Let's see what Rusty says.

Whoa, thats new for me. I always thought they decline in gender too

I hope Rusty will answer

Is perr- the lexema of the word? and gat- ? if so, maybe it is possible to add there the feminine "a" and masculine "o" ... but then, its just guessing
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  #4  
Old April 24, 2013, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramelita View Post
Whoa, thats new for me. I always thought they decline in gender too

I hope Rusty will answer

Is perr- the lexema of the word? and gat- ? if so, maybe it is possible to add there the feminine "a" and masculine "o" ... but then, its just guessing
I'm not sure whether perr- constitutes a lexeme, we need an expert in linguistics. I don't think that declining a noun by changing its gender has much meaning. I mean a particular object has a specific gender, there seems to me no reason why it would change gender. There are closely related words which have different genders, but it's not the actual word declining. Example la manzana apple, el manzano apple tree. These would be the same lexeme.

Perhaps you are confusing the declination of nouns and adjectives?
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Old April 24, 2013, 08:00 AM
Caramelita Caramelita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
I'm not sure whether perr- constitutes a lexeme, we need an expert in linguistics. I don't think that declining a noun by changing its gender has much meaning. I mean a particular object has a specific gender, there seems to me no reason why it would change gender. There are closely related words which have different genders, but it's not the actual word declining. Example la manzana apple, el manzano apple tree. These would be the same lexeme.

Perhaps you are confusing the declination of nouns and adjectives?

Hmm.. what would be the declination of nouns in this case? the adjective declination is already clear to me (the previous post). Im really confused now

Here for example : http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustant...or_g.C3.A9nero


It says that :
Según el número, en castellano, los sustantivos se clasifican en:
  1. Sustantivos singulares: si el número de objetos a los que hace referencia el nombre es único. En singular, los sustantivos no tienen ningún morfema de número.
  2. Sustantivos plurales: si el número de objetos a los que hace referencia el nombre son varios o más de uno.
Según el género, en castellano, los sustantivos se clasifican en:
  1. Sustantivos masculinos: El género masculino de un nombre frecuentemente lleva el morfema de género –o al final de la forma de singular (libro, niño, sombrero), aunque existen algunas excepciones ya que palabras que acaban en –o son femeninas como la foto(grafía), la mano, la moto(cicleta). También existen nombres masculinos acabados en consonante alveolar (árbol, ataúd, alias, armazón, ...). La mejor prueba para determinar el género de cualquier sustantivo es comprobar si la palabra requiere un artículo masculino (el, un, etc.). Por lo demás, los días de la semana, los meses del año, los puntos cardinales y los números son masculinos.
  2. Sustantivos femeninos: El género femenino de un sustantivo se determina añadiendo el morfema de género –a (niña, vaca, mesa, ventana, ...). Anteponiendo un artículo femenino (la, una, etc.) a una palabra y viendo si es gramaticalmente aceptable la expresión se conoce el género. Las letras del alfabeto son femeninas. Existen unas pocas palabras acabadas en -a que son masculinas el día, el mapa, el clima, el cometa, el planeta. Y las palabras en -ista pueden ser masculinas o femeninas según el contexto.


so for example : niñ- could be either niña or niño... i guess niñ- is the lexema
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Old April 24, 2013, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramelita View Post
Hmm.. what would be the declination of nouns in this case? the adjective declination is already clear to me (the previous post). Im really confused now

so for example : niñ- could be either niña or niño... i guess niñ- is the lexema
Yes - This is all quite straightforward, and I think the problem is your understanding of 'declination'.

Declination is the inflection of a noun to describe its grammatical function. The form of the word changes to describe whether it is the subject, object, indirect object, or governed by a preposition. Some languages inflect strongly (Latin, Greek) some weakly (German) and some hardly at all (English).

Take the word table in Latin. If you said 'the table is in the corner' the word is mensa. If you said 'I made that table', it would be mensam. If you said 'the legs of that table are blue', it would be mensae and so on. If you were talking to Brutus, and saying 'and you too, Brutus' you would say et tu Brute? because the name declines to reflect the fact you are talking directly to somebody.

German does something similar (sometimes). English nouns only decline in the genitive case denoting possession. I like John. I like John's house. The 's is short for es which is a Saxon genitive.

What you quoted about Spanish nouns has nothing to do with declension, just word formation and general rules for noun endings associated with genders.

This declension doesn't happen in Spanish nouns (but I thought it did in Hebrew ). The only change is from singular to plural, with a plural ending. So nouns decline only with number.

Was that any help?

Last edited by Perikles; April 24, 2013 at 08:23 AM.
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  #7  
Old April 24, 2013, 08:34 AM
Caramelita Caramelita is offline
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Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
Yes - This is all quite straightforward, and I think the problem is your understanding of 'declination'.

Declination is the inflection of a noun to describe its grammatical function. The form of the word changes to describe whether it is the subject, object, indirect object, or governed by a preposition. Some languages inflect strongly (Latin, Greek) some weakly (German) and some hardly at all (English).

Take the word table in Latin. If you said 'the table is in the corner' the word is mensa. If you said 'I made that table', it would be mensam. If you said 'the legs of that table are blue', it would be mensae and so on. If you were talking to Brutus, and saying 'and you too, Brutus' you would say et tu Brute? because the name declines to reflect the fact you are talking directly to somebody.

German does something similar (sometimes). English nouns only decline in the genitive case denoting possession. I like John. I like John's house. The 's is short for es which is a Saxon genitive.

What you quoted about Spanish nouns has nothing to do with declension, just word formation and general rules for noun endings associated with genders.

This declension doesn't happen in Spanish nouns (but I thought it did in Hebrew ). The only change is from singular to plural, with a plural ending. So nouns decline only with number.

Was that any help?

Oh my god! you are completely right, I just realized it now!!
I did mean the whole time "flexión nominal", jeez!!! somehow the declinación got stuck in my head, because of the conjugación.

So after all, the flexión categories for substantivos are género y número, is that true?? and same goes for the adjectives, which are also in the "flexión" category, not declinación, right??


En las lenguas flexivas, el nombre se compone de un lexema o raíz y posiblemente de otros morfemas constituyentes o gramaticales de género, número o caso gramatical. Así un nombre tiene una forma u otra en términos de su género, número y a veces caso. El conjunto de formas de una raíz entre las cuales no existen diferencias semánticas sino sólo gramaticales, todas estas variantes forman la llamada declinación.


And since there is no caso gramatical in spanish (or at least in this category), then its only gender and number, right ??
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  #8  
Old April 24, 2013, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramelita View Post
So after all, the flexión categories for substantivos are género y número, is that true?? and same goes for the adjectives, which are also in the "flexión" category, not declinación, right??

And since there is no caso gramatical in spanish (or at least in this category), then its only gender and number, right ??
I still think you are confusing lexeme and substantive. The lexeme inflects to produce substantives (=nouns) of a fixed gender. The nouns only inflect to show a singular or plural. The declension of nouns in Spanish is limited to the difference between singular and plural.

Where's Rusty when you need him?
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Old April 24, 2013, 09:12 AM
Caramelita Caramelita is offline
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Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
I still think you are confusing lexeme and substantive. The lexeme inflects to produce substantives (=nouns) of a fixed gender. The nouns only inflect to show a singular or plural. The declension of nouns in Spanish is limited to the difference between singular and plural.

Where's Rusty when you need him?

Oh now I am completely confused
According to wikipedia, the "flexión nominal en castellano" is "género y número" and there is the example of the cat, gat-a , gat-o, gat-a-s, gat-o-s. What does that mean then??


I dont know who Rusty is, but I hope he comes soon
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  #10  
Old April 24, 2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Caramelita View Post
Oh now I am completely confused
According to wikipedia, the "flexión nominal en castellano" is "género y número" and there is the example of the cat, gat-a , gat-o, gat-a-s, gat-o-s. What does that mean then??
Ah - ok - I was a bit confused. That "flexión nominal en castellano" is not declension (as you said), but I don't know the English expression, because it's irrelevant in English. It seems to be simply the formation of nouns from a lexeme, including the change from singular to plural. It's that simple.
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