Is this the subjunctive?

[Caballero]

"Cualquier cosa que necesites, acá estamos"

Why is "necesitar" in the subjunctive?

[aleCcowaN]

Because "que necesites" is 100% an adjective and nothing specific is borne in mind while saying it (let's avoid the awful theories about the needed thing being unknown to the speaker). Indicative appears when there's a specific thing and "la cosa que necesitas" becomes a portmanteau for that specific thing. In the last case "que necesitas" is also an "adjective", but in the same way "of América" is an "adjective" to specify, thus identify, "the United States"

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Caballero

"Cualquier cosa que necesites, acá estamos"

Why is "necesitar" in the subjunctive?

You could argue that it is also subjunctive in English: "Anything you may need" being something undefined.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

You could argue that it is also subjunctive in English: "Anything you may need" being something undefined.

Wouldn't be in the subjunctive if I said "Anything you need"?

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

Wouldn't be in the subjunctive if I said "Anything you need"?

Ah well, the subjunctive is sometimes invisible. I still think an explicit subjunctive would be better.

[aleCcowaN]

Yo siempre lo pienso como:

anything you need = lo que necesites/e/eis/en
anything you may need = lo que pudieras/a/ais/an (llegar a) necesitar

aunque tengo entendido que "may" es más vacilante en inglés británico que en inglés americano, y yo lo estoy pensando "a la británica".

¿Qué opinan?

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

anything you may need = lo que pudieras/a/ais/an (llegar a) necesitar

O: anything you may need =lo que puedas necesitar.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Ah well, the subjunctive is sometimes invisible. I still think an explicit subjunctive would be better.

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

O: anything you may need =lo que puedas necesitar.

I was thinking of this one too...

So, in my example the subjunctive is kind of concealed...?

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Perikles

You could argue that it is also subjunctive in English: "Anything you may need" being something undefined.

Let me see if you all agree:

Anything you may need = Cualquier cosa que puedas necesitar

Anything you might need = Cualquier cosa que pudieras necesitar

Yes?

chileno - So, in my example the subjunctive is kind of concealed...?

You mean in English? it's so concealed that most native speakers don't realize they're using it.

[Caballero]

You mean in English? it's so concealed that most native speakers don't realize they're using it

That's for sure.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

Let me see if you all agree:

Anything you may need = Cualquier cosa que puedas necesitar

Anything you might need = Cualquier cosa que pudieras necesitar

Yes?

You mean in English? it's so concealed that most native speakers don't realize they're using it.

Yes!

It is weird, as without knowing any grammar at all the sense of the word applied in different way, it is...well, different

Anything you need.

I need nothing.

"need" is different in each of those sentences...at least to me.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

Let me see if you all agree:

Anything you may need = Cualquier cosa que puedas necesitar

Anything you might need = Cualquier cosa que pudieras necesitar

Yes?

No - not quite, because may is not a subjunctive form, but might is.

may expresses the ability or power to do something: You may have another piece of cake
May I come in?

might is the past tense of may, but also a subjunctive form expressing hypothesis.

Anything you might need.

In recent years, the difference between them seems to have evaporated, and may is used 'incorrectly' where it should be might.

Originally Posted by chileno

Yes!

It is weird, as without knowing any grammar at all the sense of the word applied in different way, it is...well, different

Anything you need.

I need nothing.

"need" is different in each of those sentences...at least to me.

That's good - you sense the difference in mood in 'need' even when the forms are identical. I wonder whether this is because you are aware of a subjunctive in Spanish. Most English speakers would not have a clue about what a subjunctive mood is, because (at least in the UK) formal grammar is not longer taught in schools (because teachers don't know it either).

[aleCcowaN]

I was taught these some 25 years ago:

-could is the past of can, might is the past of may, should is the past of shall, would is the past of will, must is the past of something forgotten long time ago

-in order to express possibility (and courtesy) the order is:

BE: can, could, may, might
AE: can, may, could, might

-'might' is extremely hesitant and express something like 'quizá pudiera/quizá podría' (potential mode in years past) or like 'pudiera ... quizás...' (subjunctive mode)

-about Spanish 'poder', an approach may be

can ------------ could ------------ may ------------ might
can ------------ may ------------ could ------------ might
puede ------------------podría (axis of potential)
puede -------------- pueda -------------- pudiera (axis of likelihood)

But maybe I didn't quite understand or they taught me wrong.

Comments are welcome.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

-in order to express possibility (and courtesy) the order is:

BE: can, could, may, might
AE: can, may, could, might

-'might' is extremely hesitant and express something like 'quizá pudiera/quizá podría' (potential mode in years past) or like 'pudiera ... quizás...' (subjunctive mode)

I suspect there are so many different variables such as dialect and register that it is unlikely to be that clear. I perceive no real difference between these:

I'm going for a walk today because it could rain tomorrow.
I'm going for a walk today because it might rain tomorrow.

The relative probability of rain tomorrow is impossible to quantify.

Again, it is risky to detect a difference between

May I borrow your pencil?
Could I borrow your pencil?

because the degree of politeness is expressed far more by intonation than word choice.

I don't think I have ever said Can I borrow your pencil? and I don't think I have ever heard anybody say Might I borrow your pencil?

This might/could be purely a regional difference, or perhaps I don't know anybody who has a pencil.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

No - not quite, because may is not a subjunctive form, but might is.

may expresses the ability or power to do something: You may have another piece of cake
May I come in?

might is the past tense of may, but also a subjunctive form expressing hypothesis.

Anything you might need.

In recent years, the difference between them seems to have evaporated, and may is used 'incorrectly' where it should be might.

Then, what's the present tense of might in subjunctive?

Originally Posted by Perikles

That's good - you sense the difference in mood in 'need' even when the forms are identical. I wonder whether this is because you are aware of a subjunctive in Spanish. Most English speakers would not have a clue about what a subjunctive mood is, because (at least in the UK) formal grammar is not longer taught in schools (because teachers don't know it either).

Most likely, it is because I sense the subjunctive in Spanish.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

Then, what's the present tense of might in subjunctive? .

English uses the indicative mood of a past tense for a present subjunctive.

If I were you ....

were is the past of am, used as a subjunctive.

What would happen if tomorrow I went on holiday?

Went is the past tense of go, used here as a subjunctive to express a hypothetical situation in the future.

I thought that tomorrow I might go on holiday.

Might is the past tense of may used here as a subjunctive to express a hypothetical situation in the future.

So might is both an indicative past and a present subjunctive, but I'm happy to be challenged on this.

[Caballero]

For me:

*I'm going for a walk today because it could rain tomorrow.
I'm going for a walk today because it might rain tomorrow.

Could sounds odd to me. Might sounds fine.

May I borrow your pencil?
*Could I borrow your pencil?

I would never use "could" there.
For me:
Informal: "Can I borrow your pencil?"
Formal/Polite: "May I borrow your pencil?"

I don't think I have ever said Can I borrow your pencil?

But have you said "Can I go to the bathroom?"
(To which the teacher responds: "I hope you can. You may if you want to.")

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Caballero

For me:

Could sounds odd to me. Might sounds fine.."

Which goes to show that these differences are probably regional, so you can't make general rules.

Originally Posted by Caballero

But have you said "Can I go to the bathroom?"

No, because I have never used that stupid euphemism . But I never ask "Can I ..." always "May I ...". I use "can" for situations where I am asking about ability, not permission, say "Can I have access to my bank details via the internet?"

[Caballero]

But I never ask "Can I ..." always "May I ...".

Because teachers have told you to, or because it really does seem natural and informal to say?

[poli]

"Can I?" means "Am I able to?"

When asking permission it makes sense to say "May I?"

If you ask "Can I?", someone may answer,
"Of course you can, but you may not"

"Can I be president?"
"You may be president some day, but I don't know if you can."