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Poner los puntos sobre las íes.

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Alfonso
March 27, 2008, 05:02 PM
Puntualizar, precisar, aclarar, poner los puntos sobre las íes.
How can I say these expressions in English?

I know to clarify for aclarar. But, what about the rest of them?

Quisiera puntualizar que yo no tengo nada que ver con el asunto.
Debo precisar que la cantidad desaparecida no llega a los cien mil euros.
Es necesario alguien que ponga los puntos sobre las íes. Vivimos en un delirio constante.

Jane
March 27, 2008, 05:12 PM
I´m not sure about the others but for poner los puntos sobre las íes,I think the expression is to dot your ies and cross your ts.

Tomisimo
March 27, 2008, 05:58 PM
Alfonso, here's a few options. Let me know if what you meant was something different.

puntualizar (recordar)
Quisiera puntualizar que yo no tengo nada que ver con el asunto.
I'd like to remind everyone that I don't have anything to do with this situation.
Keep in mind that I don't have anything to do with this situation.

puntualizar (precisar)
I'd like to specify that I don't have anything to do with this deal. (especificar)
I'd like to point out that I don't have anything to do with this deal. (señalar)
I'd like to state that I don't have anything to do with this deal. (declarar)
I'd like to go on the record as saying that I don't have anything to do with this deal.

precisar (señalar)
Debo precisar que la cantidad desaparecida no llega a los cien mil euros.
I must point out that the amount that has disappeared is less than 100,000 Euros.
I must specify that the amount that has disappeared is less than 100,000 Euros.

As far as the expression "poner los puntos sobre las íes", I honestly haven't heard it before. Literally it would be "to do your Is", but I suspect that it really means something like:

to take care of business
to do the job right
to take care of all the details
to be careful to do everything right

or something to that effect. Can you confirm that?

poli
March 27, 2008, 06:10 PM
puntualizar also translates as emphasize. Precisar tambien

Rusty
March 27, 2008, 06:22 PM
The phrase is "to dot your i's and cross your t's." (Apostrophes are used to write the plural form of a letter.)

For puntualizar, I would say 'to make clear,' 'to state,' or 'to point out.'
For aclarar, I would use 'to clarify' in addition to 'to make clear.'
For precisar, I would use 'to determine exactly/precisely' or 'to make absolutely certain/sure.'

sosia
March 28, 2008, 01:35 AM
good info. Thanks :D

Alfonso
March 31, 2008, 12:10 PM
Thanks everybody for your answers!

Y un par de puntualizaciones para David:

I don't use puntualizar with the nuance of recordar (neither to remember nor to remind). I've checked it in DRAE and DPD and it doesn't appear.

About poner los puntos sobre las íes:

to take care of business
to do the job right
to take care of all the details
to be careful to do everything right

I don't think it fits any of the meanings you say. It's more like somebody saying something that everybody expected to be said but nobody was so brave as for saying it. The person who pone los puntos sobre las íes speaks clearly, reasonably and vigorously.

So, I can neither be sure if it fits to dot the I's and to cross the T's, as I don't know the meaning of this English expression.

Rusty
March 31, 2008, 03:39 PM
The "dot the i's and cross the t's" phrase means to be careful to do everything right (to be meticulous). So, it doesn't fit your phrase, although it appeared to at first glance.

The meaning you give to poner los puntos sobre las íes is something akin to 'a polished speaker' in English. This means the conversationalist is flawless, skillful, and excellent. It implies the use of clear (reasonable - making good sense), well-chosen words (concise - peppered with multi-syllabic words), and appropriate grammar. However, it doesn't imply vigorous speech. We usually say 'powerful' to describe vigorous, or animated speech. So, I think a good translation of poner los puntos sobre las íes is 'a polished and powerful speaker.' There are other ways (synonyms) to say the same thing.

Tomisimo
April 01, 2008, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the corrections Alfonso.

Returning to los puntos sobre las íes...

I agree with Rusty's analysis, based on Alsonso's definition of the phrase.

I also found a blog titled Los Puntos Sobre Las Íes (http://www.leopoldosilva.blogspot.com/).
In this context, would a good translation be "Straight Talk" or "Telling it Like it Is"? What do you think?

Alfonso
April 01, 2008, 03:59 PM
I think a good translation would be straight talk or telling it like it is as David said.

Let's see these examples:

Estaba ya más que harto de mi jefe... y cuando me dijo que no podía ni abrir la ventana... fue la gota que colmó el vaso... Me levanté y le dije cuatro cositas. Le puse los puntos sobre las íes, todo muy clarito. No creo que vuelva a decirme otra tontería parecida.

No sé qué más quiere esa chica. Se lo he dicho cien veces. Me va a obligar a tener que ponerle los puntos sobre las íes. (Maybe this one a little forced because of the context, but valid as well).

Ese vecino es el que salva las reuniones. Cada vez que se levanta pone los puntos sobre las íes.

I hope this will be clearer than my previous attempt of definition in English.

Tomisimo
April 01, 2008, 06:19 PM
Thanks Alfonso, those examples give me an even better understanding of the phrase.

I'll try my hand at translating parts of these. Of course there are many possible translations, and I'd love to see what others come up with too.

Estaba ya más que harto de mi jefe... y cuando me dijo que no podía ni abrir la ventana... fue la gota que colmó el vaso... Me levanté y le dije cuatro cositas. Le puse los puntos sobre las íes, todo muy clarito.
I was already fed up with my boss, so when he came in and said I couldn't even have the window open, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I got up and I told him a thing or two. I really let him have it until he backed down. I don't think he'll be talking like that to me again.

Ese vecino es el que salva las reuniones. Cada vez que se levanta pone los puntos sobre las íes.
This guy, my neighbor, always comes through in the meetings. Every time he gets up, he makes them listen to reason.

I'll leave the middle one for someone else. :D

Alfonso
April 02, 2008, 01:22 AM
Great translations, David!

I've got only a doubt with this:
Ese vecino es el que salva las reuniones. Cada vez que se levanta pone los puntos sobre las íes.
This guy, my neighbour, always comes through in the meetings. Every time he gets up, he makes them listen to reason.

I'm not sure if in the English version it's implicit the fact that the meeting is among co-proprietors as it is in the Spanish one.
It's a cultural knowledge the fact that, in Spain, a phrase like that, with un vecino que pone los puntos sobre las íes en todas las reuniones, is almost always refereed to this kind of meeting: reunión de vecinos. And I'm not sure what to call this in English, even because a I don't know if you have the habit of having this kind of meetings, although I think they are useful despite of the fact they are boring.

poli
April 02, 2008, 05:45 AM
En Inglés, por lo menos en Los Estados Unidos, una cosa parecida a la reunion de vecinos es una tenents association meeting. Es una reunion de inquilinos de un edificio de apartamentos. Tambien hay apartamentos cooporativos en que todos que viven en el edificio son dueños parciales. Sus reuniones se llaman co-op board meetings. Un co-op board
meeting no incluye todos los dueños sino (is sino used correctly here? *) un grupo elegido representar todos los dueños.

Poli
Favor de corregirme. Gracias.
PD
*Estoy muy cómodo con el uso de la palabra pero, pero incómodo con sin y mas. ¿ Me puede dar un ejemplo del uso de
sin y mas en un frase? Gracias

Tomisimo
April 02, 2008, 10:27 AM
Alfonso, poli's right about apartment tenant's meeting. There are also homeowners associations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeowners%27_association), where all the homeowners in a certain area are members and they have periodic meetings.

So to answer your question, my translation could be more explicit in saying that it's at a homeowner's meeting.

One guy always comes through in the homeowner's meetings. Every time he gets up, he makes them listen to reason.

Estoy muy cómodo con el uso de la palabra pero, pero incómodo con sino y mas. ¿ Me puede dar un ejemplo del uso de
sin y mas en un frase? Gracias
pero = but
mas = but (Used in archaic or liturgical speech. Se encuentra mucho en la Biblia por ejemplo. Mas [w/o the accent mark] has the same meaning as pero)
sino = but rather

ejemplos:

Quería comprar un agua de coco, pero no tenía dinero.
Quería comprar un agua de coco, mas no tenía dinero.
No quería comprar un agua de coco, sino un agua rusa.

Un co-op board
meeting no incluye todos los dueños sino (is sino used correctly here? *) un grupo elegido representar todos los dueños.
sino is used correctly here.

Alfonso
April 02, 2008, 11:58 AM
Thanks a lot for your answers, Poli and David.
I agree with all David said about usage of pero, mas and sino, especially with the fact that mas is archaic, really archaic. I don't recommend you to use it if you are not don Quijote or Hamlet (or you believe to be one of them).

Some small corrections for you, Poli:

En Inglés, por lo menos en los Estados Unidos, una cosa parecida a la reunión de vecinos es una tenents association meeting. Es una reunión de inquilinos de un edificio de apartamentos. También hay apartamentos cooperativos en que todos los que viven en el edificio son dueños parciales. Sus reuniones se llaman co-op board meetings. Un co-op board meeting no incluye a todos los dueños sino (is sino used correctly here? * Yes, it is) un grupo elegido para representar a todos los dueños.

Poli
Favor de corregirme. Gracias.
PD
*Estoy seguro de cómo se usa la palabra pero, pero no sé usar sino y mas. ¿Me puedes dar un ejemplo del uso de sino y mas en un frase? Gracias

En la anterior frase, estoy muy cómodo no funciona en español. Se puede estar cómodo en un sillón, en un sofá, en una cama, con una persona, con un trabajo, pero no con una palabra. ¿Por qué? Cosas de la lengua. A esto se le llama colocación errónea.

poli
April 02, 2008, 03:22 PM
The colacación errónea that I did with the word cómodo
would have alsobeen incorrect in English a few years ago. Being comfortable with a concept or a word or anything not material would not have made sense. Era una incorrect placement
de una palabra. What can be used in place of comfortable is the more traditional happy or familiar.( Ejemplo: No estoy muy familiar con el uso de la palaba sino.) The language is morphing (a newer word for changing from metamorphasis)

Poli

Alfonso
April 02, 2008, 03:57 PM
A few corrections for Poli:colocación errónea No estoy muy familiarizado con el uso de la palaba sino.)
I like that word: morphing, although it makes me feel sleepy...

Tomisimo
April 02, 2008, 06:15 PM
I like that word: morphing, although it makes me feel sleepy...
No, that would be morphine. :D