"How"

[SPX]

So I'm taking a Spanish course online, and one of the phrases was:

Yo sé hablar español . . . I know how to speak Spanish.

But I'm not sure I how I understand why "how" doesn't have to be translated.

Furthermore, if Yo sé hablar español is I know how to speak Spanish, then how would you say:

I know to speak Spanish, i.e. I know to speak Spanish when I'm around Spanish people (instead of speaking English).

[aleCcowaN]

"I know to speak Spanish"? :confused: What does it mean?

[poli]

So I'm taking a Spanish course online, and one of the phrases was:

Yo sé hablar español . . . I know how to speak Spanish.

But I'm not sure I how I understand why "how" doesn't have to be translated.

Furthermore, if Yo sé hablar español is I know how to speak Spanish, then how would you say:

I know to speak Spanish, i.e. I know to speak Spanish when I'm around Spanish people (instead of speaking English).
To know to speak Spanish would translated something like : Deber de saber hablar español cuando estoy en la compañia de hispanohablantes.
Ayúdanos hispanos si las palabras que escogí no son los mejores:kiss:

As for your other question: to know how to is translated saber + the infinitive. That's just the way it is. Things often do not translate
word for word, and that is the nature of language (not just Spanish and English). In the great majority of times, maybe even 99% plus, the exact meaning can be conveyed.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Yo sé hablar español . . . I know how to speak Spanish. It is actually something like "I can speak Spanish".


But I'm not sure I how I understand why "how" doesn't have to be translated.
Listen to Poli. You can't translate word for word. :)



Furthermore, if Yo sé hablar español is I know how to speak Spanish, then how would you say:

I know to speak Spanish, i.e. I know to speak Spanish when I'm around Spanish people (instead of speaking English).
·Sé cómo hablar español cuando estoy entre/con españoles*. -> I know the way to speak Spanish when I'm around Spanish people (maybe implying there is a different style than when you're with other Spanish speakers).
·Sé hablar español cuando estoy entre/con españoles*. -> I can speak Spanish and how to do it with Spaniards.
·Puedo hablar español cuando estoy entre/con españoles*. -> If I'm with Spaniards, I can choose to speak Spanish. "Puedo" underlines my capability to speak Spanish.
·Hablo español si/cuando estoy entre/con españoles*. -> If I'm with Spanish speaking people, I speak Spanish.

*Please note:
Spanish people / Spaniards = españoles
Spanish speaking people = hispanohablantes, hispanoparlantes, gente que habla español.


To know to speak Spanish would translated something like : Deber(de) saber hablar español cuando estoy se está (only because you chose the infinitive, so it must match with an impersonal, otherwise, you could say "debo" and "estoy") en la compañía de hispanohablantes.
Ayúdennos hispanos/ayúdanos hispano si las palabras que escogí no son las mejores:kiss:
Your chosen words are fine, I think, but it depends on what the intention of the sentence is. This one may state that you obviously have a certain level of Spanish knowledge, since you're able to communicate with Spanish speaking people. :)

[Rusty]

The 'I know to speak Spanish' phrase means that, out of courtesy, we speak Spanish when we're around hispanohablantes. If we speak Spanish, but choose not to speak it when everyone else in the room speaks Spanish, it's considered a breech of etiquette (rude).

I know to speak Spanish (instead of speaking English, because it would be considered rude) when I'm around Spanish people.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I see... Would you agree that we'd say then something like:
-(Sé que) debo hablar español cuando estoy entre hispanohablantes.

Some impersonal ways to say it:
-Hay que hablar español cuando se está entre hispanohablantes.
-Se debe hablar español cuando se está entre hispanohablantes.

[Rusty]

Yes :thumbsup:, to all three choices. I actually thought about posting the personal way you suggested, without the parenthetical piece, knowing that it would get the meaning across, but wondered if there was any other way to say it.

[aleCcowaN]

But "I know how to speak Spanish" ("Sé cómo hablar castellano") and "I'm known to speak my mind" ("Todos saben que digo lo que pienso") are both self-contained sentences (they are their own context).

Does "I know to speak Spanish" speak as clearly and univocally as those or did you have to make a plausible context?

[wrholt]

But "I know how to speak Spanish" ("Sé cómo hablar castellano") and "I'm known to speak my mind" ("Todos saben que digo lo que pienso") are both self-contained sentences (they are their own context).

Does "I know to speak Spanish" speak as clearly and univocally as those or did you have to make a plausible context?

Yes: the pattern "to know to [verb]" is a standard way to express "to know that it is appropriate/required/correct to [verb]", at least here in the northeastern USA. Context does not determine the type of meaning, although it may affect the exact nuance. If that type of meaning does not make sense in the context, then this pattern sounds wrong.

[poli]

But "I know how to speak Spanish" ("Sé cómo hablar castellano") and "I'm known to speak my mind" ("Todos saben que digo lo que pienso") are both self-contained sentences (they are their own context).

Does "I know to speak Spanish" speak as clearly and univocally as those or did you have to make a plausible context?
No. It requires a little bit of context or explanation. It does not stand well
alone.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Old Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary agrees with wrholt that "to know to do something" is an idiom meaning one knows what one should do... there aren't any notes on regional usage though.

[aleCcowaN]

Thanks all of you. I didn't know that. Maybe that structure has some misapplications so context is welcome. Anyway, I still can't get a handle on that use; I don't know why I associate it with "you know better" and maybe it's just "sé (que tengo que) hablar castellano" and my Spanish brains -reinforced by my linguistic moronity- can't see it without a catalyst like "que".

I googled the raw expression "you know to" and some instances showed ("You know to get hip to my heart" for example), but Google suggested many more related search terms used by real people using the structure "you/I know to" than the real number of results found; in my experience in Spanish, that happens about terms used by "operational illiterate" -some 80 or 90% of the population in any developed country-, that is, people that can't write down instructions and that are not "bidirectional", that is, they consume written material but they are 'estranged from themselves' in the event of providing written information.

[poli]

It's best to use examples to get a better idea of its use.

The dog knows to be gentle around children

You should know to lock the door before you leave.

She needs to know to be careful what she says around her hostile neighbor.

[Rusty]

Your 'dog knows to be gentle' example is not quite the same kind of usage we've been discussing. Your other sentences could be trimmed up a bit, and they'll still convey basically the same idea. In these, the 'knowing to' is equated with 'knowing better' or 'common sense'.

You know to lock the door before you leave.
She knows to be careful (about) what she says around her hostile neighbor.

[aleCcowaN]

Thank you for the examples.

I'm thinking now that this has to be with some meanings of "(to) know" that doesn't match any use of "saber" or "conocer", for instance ("que yo me sepa"):

You know better than that
He doesn't know s*** from Shinola [maybe a dated idiom, though from WWII]
Tomorrow is a brand new day, and it don't(sic) know white from black ["You can't stop the beat" from Hairspray]

In my opinion, all those point to the ability to discriminate by using an intellectual or perceptual representation. something that is not specific to "saber" or "conocer".

[Cuholvke]

Actually it can be translated both ways "I know how to speak spanish." as "(Yo) Sé hablar español." omitting the meaning of "how" AND "I know how to speak spanish (you don't/...)." as "(Yo) Sé como hablar español(, tú no/...).", it depends on context being the first one the most common. The second case would be a situation where someone wrongly tries to correct your spoken spanish OR if you commit a mistake and someone humiliates you and then you say that xD OR if you're just boasting.