Libro

[DailyWord]

This is a discussion thread for the Daily Spanish Word (http://daily.tomisimo.org/) for May 20, 2008

libro -masculine noun (el), book. Look up libro in the dictionary (http://www.tomisimo.org/dictionary/spanish_english/libro)

Mi librero está lleno de libros; libritos, librotes y libros de tamaño normal.
My bookshelf is full of books; little books, big books and medium sized books.

[Iris]

Here we call bookselves estanterías.
I love today's entry, books are my favourite thing in the world...
Let's see if I can think of any related expressions:
- Es un libro abierto, sólo con mirarla se la nota que está enamorada.
- Este chico habla como un libro.
And one I had never heard before:
- Ahorcar los libros: apparently it means to drop out of school.
P.S. Alfonso, debería ser se le nota. ¿verdad? Me temo que soy laísta, leísta y todo lo que se puede ser, como buena madrileña. Cuando vivía en Castilla La Mancha me corregían constantemente.

[poli]

A mi me gustaría ver leismo apoderar español en general no solo Madrid por pereza nada mas. Lo hace mas fácil nosotros--los que tenemos que aprender o enseñar español como una segunda lengua.:D

[Iris]

A mi me gustaría ver el leísmo apoderarse del español en general no sólo Madrid por pereza nada mas. Lo hace más fácil para nosotros--los que tenemos que aprender o enseñar español como una segunda lengua.:D
Just a few tiny corrections:cool:

[Iris]

Another word I have just remembered: ratón de biblioteca which as you can imagine means bookworm.

[Marsopa]

Why do you say that leismo is easier? Just curious...

Marsopa

[poli]

It's standardized. In order to learn or teach leísmo, you don't have to be as aware of direct or indirect objects as you do in standard Spanish. It's similar to English that way. In standard Spanish, you need to be aware of le lo la. Leísmo simplifies matters.

[Alfonso]

Sí, Iris, se la nota es un laísmo flagrante, pero te queda gracioso. Y depende de donde vivas, desentonará o no. Seguro que en la mayor parte de Hispanoamérica suena fatal.

[Tomisimo]

Seguro que en la mayor parte de Hispanoamérica suena fatal.
Eso, sí. :)

[Iris]

Sí, Iris, se la nota es un laísmo flagrante, pero te queda gracioso. Y depende de donde vivas, desentonará o no. Seguro que en la mayor parte de Hispanoamérica suena fatal.
Funny, how?

[Marsopa]

I have never heard that said. I have always heard "se le nota."

So, do you (Alfonso) want to offer a succint explanation of the easy "leismo" rules?

Thanks,

Marsopa:o

[Alfonso]

It will be hard to be succinct with pronombres átonos.

Here we go with the basic rule:

CD LO................Lo he visto en la tele (a él / la cosa masculina -el coche-)
CD LA................La he visto en la tele (a ella / la cosa femenina -la revista-).
CI LE............... Le dijo que viniera (a él o a ella). Puesto que: Decir algo a alguien (algo es el complemento directo y a alguien es el complemento indirecto).

If you use it this way, you will never be wrong. But there are some other usages: leísmo, loísmo and laísmo.


One of these usage is accepted: Leísmo when the object is a masculine person, not a thing:

Le he visto (a Juan).
Actually, Juan is CD, so you could also say Lo he visto, as in many American countries is said. But, in this case, to use le instead of lo is also acceptable.



The other usages are not accepted by RAE, but they are very common in different areas, so that you could draw a linguistic map showing the distribution of this:

Laísmo: la instead of le: La he dado una invitación (a Pepita).
Leísmo: le instead of la: Le he visto (a María).
Loísmo: lo instead of le: Lo he dado (a Juan) una carta.
But... what about se?

[Marsopa]

Anyway, does anyone want to offer a succint explanation of the "easy" rules for leismo?

thanks,

Marsopa:)

[Marsopa]

Thanks, Alfonso,

I guess that is what I learned, but I have never heard some of your examples actually spoken.

Thanks.

Marsopa

[Alfonso]

In some areas in Spain laísmo and leísmo are very common.

[poli]

It seems that leismo is an attempt at streamlining the language. I like it because of that, but it can get very vague.

[Tomisimo]

Someone mentioned above that if Spanish adopted the rules of leísmo (use only indirect object pronouns) across the board, then it would be easier and more like English.

English does have direct and indirect object pronouns. He has a letter.
She has a letter.
I gave him a letter.
I gave her a letter.
How would you like to see the following? *I gave he a letter.
*I gave she a letter.

[Alfonso]

How would you like to see the following?
*I gave he a letter.
*I gave she a letter.
I'm not sure if I understood the question. I would say:

I gave it to him.
I gave it to her.
Is this what you asked for?

[Alfonso]

I see, but the point is if:

I gave him a letter.
I gave her a letter.
... are right; isn't it?

[Tomisimo]

It's standardized. In order to learn or teach leísmo, you don't have to be as aware of direct or indirect objects as you do in standard Spanish. It's similar to English that way. In standard Spanish, you need to be aware of le lo la. Leísmo simplifies matters.

I'm not sure if I understood the question. I would say:

I gave it to him.
I gave it to her.

Is this what you asked for?

I see, but the point is if:

I gave him a letter.
I gave her a letter.

... are right; isn't it?

I was referring to post #7 (quoted above). My examples show that both direct object pronouns and indirect object pronouns are used in English, just like they are in Spanish. That's all. :) By the way, I gave him a letter and I gave a letter to him are both correct.