El patio es bonito, con flores todavia.

[Jorriss]

In Bregstein's text, Fundamental Spanish, the first reading comprehension paragraph has the sentence, "El patio es bonito, con flores todavia." In this context, is todavia idiomatic?

I would translate the sentence as, "The patio is pretty, with flowers still," but that makes little sense to me.

Thank you!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

It's probably because of the time of the year; if it's after the rain season, it's probably strange that there are still flowers now. Or because of another situation that makes it unusual that there are any flowers left from a previous time where there were more of them (probably it's an old abandoned place). :)

[Jorriss]

Ah, that makes sense. Is that how you would actually express that sentiment though? Or is that usage a limitation of vocabulary at that point in the text?

[Rusty]

Meaning can only be gathered from context. Translation from any language into another always requires a knowledge of the context. Without that, the translation will be flawed.
This is why a machine will usually not produce a proper translation.

There isn't 'a limitation of vocabulary'. The correct amount of vocabulary was used, in context, to fully express the sentiment. We don't have the context, so can only guess at the intended meaning.

[Jorriss]

Meaning can only be gathered from context. Translation from any language into another always requires a knowledge of the context. Without that, the translation will be flawed.
This is why a machine will usually not produce a proper translation.

There isn't 'a limitation of vocabulary'. The correct amount of vocabulary was used, in context, to fully express the sentiment. We don't have the context, so can only guess at the intended meaning.
I gave the entire sentence, that seemed like sufficient context. However, I can offer everything leading upto that sentence:

Mi casa es vieja y grande, con muchas ventanas. Las cortinas en toda la casa son gruesas. Las paredes del interior de la casa son blancas; el exterior es gris. El patio es bonita, con flores todavia.


Let me rephrase the sentiment I was asking with the second part: is that a natural way of phrasing the notion that "there are still flowers," or would you state that some other way, given that you have access to a larger vocabulary? It is not a question of whether or not the author was right or wrong.

[Rusty]

Yes, it sounds natural, since this looks more like what a realtor would write. Advertising and the like seem to sound better when it's direct and to the point; otherwise, you might lose the sales pitch feel and the reader will move on to something else. :)

Your translation-"there are still flowers"-sounds very natural, but I would add the conjunction "and."
"El patio es bonito y todavía hay flores," would be a good translation of what you said, but it doesn't fit the 'sales pitch' style.

[Jorriss]

Yes, it sounds natural, since this looks more like what a realtor would write. Advertising and the like seem to sound better when it's direct and to the point; otherwise, you might lose the sales pitch feel and the reader will move on to something else. :)

Your translation-"there are still flowers"-sounds very natural, but I would add the conjunction "and."
"El patio es bonito y todavía hay flores," would be a good translation of what you said, but it doesn't fit the 'sales pitch' style.
Gotcha, that's very helpful, thank you!

[aleCcowaN]

"El patio es bonito, con flores todavia."

The only interpretation available to me is a description of a full-of-pots patio during October/November (Northern Hemisphere), April/May (SH). "(Though the first cold days have already come) there are still flowers in it".

[ThaliaGonzalez]

Que increíble es nuestro idioma español, me parece y así lo han dicho varios profesores que es mejor aprender inglés que español, debido a que este último es más complicado.

[deandddd]

I understand the phrase as meaning "and it's even got flowers".

By the way, could I say " ... hasta con flores" ?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Some comments below:

I understand the phrase as meaning "and it's even got flowers". --> Hmm, no, I'm afraid not. :thinking:
"Todavía" may be translated as "even" when it's used as an intensive in a comparison.
- Sí, estoy loco, pero mi hermano está todavía más loco que yo.
Yes, I'm crazy, but my brother is even crazier than I am.
- El patio tiene muchas flores, pero el jardín tiene todavía más flores.
The patio has many flowers, but the garden has even more flowers.


By the way, could I say " ... hasta con flores" ?
Yes, you could, but not with the same meaning.
In "el patio es bonito y hasta con flores" the speaker makes an emphasis on the fact that the patio has flowers.
In "el patio es bonito, con flores todavía", the speaker describes the unexpected fact that the flowers are blooming, although they probably shouldn't due to the time of the year, negligence or any reason only he/she knows.