Subjunctive exercise 14-15

[laepelba]

This one is a translating exercise. The sentences are given in English and I am supposed to translate them to Spanish.

The two about which I have questions are as follows:

#3) English: We need an office that is big and inexpensive.
My attempt: Necesitamos una oficina que sea grande y económica.
The book's version: Tenemos una oficina que sea grande y barata.
My question: I don't understand how "we need" becomes "tenemos".

#6) English: There isn't anyone who can understand this message!
My attempt: ¡No hay nadie que pueda entender este mensaje!
The book's version: ¡No hay nadie que comprenda este mensaje!
My question: I DO understand the use of "comprender" here, but why do they not use "poder"?

Thanks for any input!!

[JPablo]

Hola, #3 seems like a "book-o" I mean a TYPO!
Tenemos = We have
Necesitamos = We need... (And that's all I have to say!)

#6. The book is not "wrong" but I'd take your version any day of the week. (I may be missing something esoteric, but then again, if it is so esoteric that a Spanish native can't grasp it either, I wouldn't pay much attention to it...)

There is a saying in Spain, "quien te entienda que te venda" (whoever understands you, he can sell you.) (One says this sarcastically, when he/she doesn't understand what the other person is saying, or his/her attitude in some situation...) (Just as an apart... maybe a bit off-topic...)

[Rusty]

Your textbook is definitely wrong on #3. Your answer is correct.

We English speakers tend to overuse the verb poder. The second sentence is one of those times where it isn't necessarily needed.

[laepelba]

Thanks, both of you. Interesting note about poder, Rusty...

[JPablo]

Yes, thank you Rusty... I had not realized that aspect of "can"...

I realize you could say...

Me doy cuenta de que podrías decir...
Me doy cuenta de que dirías...

that "can" would work like an 'auxiliary' verb in English.

que "can" funcionaría como un verbo 'auxiliar' en inglés.

[laepelba]

Yes, thank you Rusty... I had not realized that aspect of "can"...

I realize you could say...

Me doy cuenta de que podrías decir...
Me doy cuenta de que dirías...

that "can" would work like an 'auxiliary' verb in English.

que "can" funcionaría como un verbo 'auxiliar' en inglés.

Interesting - I didn't realize that "me doy cuenta de que podrías decir" would be equivalent (?) to "me doy cuenta de que dirías"..... ??

[JPablo]

Not quite 'exactly' the same, but I was extrapolating with the "can" (it may be a bit too much of extrapolation... but actually, concept wise seems close enough.)

I realize you could say...
I realize you would say...

[laepelba]

I realize you could say...
I realize you would say...

To me, the meanings of those two phrases (in English) are extremely different...

[JPablo]

As in what difference?

I could say that difference is...
Podría decir que la diferencia es...

I'd say the difference is...
Diría que la diferencia es...

To me, while the first one is that "I could" say it... the second it has also implied that fact that "I could say"... but it is still something hanging in the air, that I am not "categorically" saying... "I say the difference is X!"

Maybe I am missing something in English, but I don't see (concept-wise) an 'extreme' difference. (I see a nuance difference, in terms of emphasis, but it a very light difference in my eyes... and ears...)

[laepelba]

As in what difference?

I could say that difference is...
Podría decir que la diferencia es...

I'd say the difference is...
Diría que la diferencia es...

To me, while the first one is that "I could" say it... the second it has also implied that fact that "I could say"... but it is still something hanging in the air, that I am not "categorically" saying... "I say the difference is X!"

Maybe I am missing something in English, but I don't see (concept-wise) an 'extreme' difference. (I see a nuance difference, in terms of emphasis, but it a very light difference in my eyes... and ears...)

Well, with your sentence, I agree with what you've said is the overlap, although I tend to avoid using "can/could" unless talking about physical possibilities. For example, in the first sentence, I would really only say "I could say that the difference is..." if I have an expertise in talking about whatever difference and my mouth/voice physically work to say whatever...

In the second sentence, I would use "I would say that the difference is..." when expressing an opinion - for example: "in my opinion, I would say that the difference ....." or when giving an example of something hypothetical (see the other discussion......), for example: "if she brings that to my attention, I would say that the difference is...."



#6) English: There isn't anyone who can understand this message!
My attempt: ¡No hay nadie que pueda entender este mensaje!
The book's version: ¡No hay nadie que comprenda este mensaje!
My question: I DO understand the use of "comprender" here, but why do they not use "poder"?


But let's go back to my original example.
- nadie que pueda comprender este mensaje... - to me would mean "... no one who can understand this message... meaning that there is no one who is capable of understanding (it is actually, factually too jumbled, difficult, intellectual, whatever to be understood by any person in the group under consideration...)
- nadie que comprendía este mensaje... - to me would mean "given certain circumstances (previously stated) there is no one who would understand this message", as in, there will be no one available who will understand this message because of whatever circumstances are understood to be in place, but if those circumstances were to change (which is possible because of the use of the word "would"), then they probably would understand.....

???

[JPablo]

I see what you mean.

As far as you original example,
-The 'literal' could be "no one who could understand this message..."
"no one who would be able to understand this message..."
"no one who can understand this message..."
With different nuances in English, but bottom line = no understanding.

-The second (Quoting you from above,)
"given certain circumstances (previously stated) there is no one who would understand this message",

(Probably, but not necessarily the case. Could be "given any circumstance" "at any moment" i.e., could be that "no circumstances" are needed.) (But I get the nuance, on the "would", yes that would be the difference.)

The bottom line is that there is an inability to understand, and the subjunctive in Spanish may give a connotation of a "wish" that one could understand... given the fact that one cannot...

[laepelba]

Agreed! :)