Cucaracha - Page 2

This could be a linguistic trace remaining from the Spanish occupation of the Netherlands in the 16th century. :thinking::thinking:

Occupation? I'm aware of a personal union which combined Habsburg holdings in the Netherlands with Aragón and Castile, starting with Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, but I've never heard that he or his descendants needed to send Spanish troops to maintain their North Sea possessions.

I think Brute may be referring to a period that in Dutch/ the Netherlands is called "the Eighty Years' War" i.e. "De Tachtigjarige Oorlog", (in spite of it factually lasting 68 years because of a 12 year truce).:)

The Dutch Revolt, Eighty Years' War or the Revolt of the Netherlands (1568[1]–1648), was the successful revolt of the Seventeen Provinces in the Low Countries against the Spanish Empire. It led to the formation of the independent Dutch state of the Netherlands. The first leader was William of Orange, followed by several of his descendants and relations. This revolt was one of the first successful secessions in Europe, and led to one of the first European republics of the modern era, although the country would become a monarchy 250 years later.

Spain was initially successful in suppressing the rebellion. In 1572, however, the rebels captured Brielle and the rebellion resurged. The northern provinces became independent, first de facto, and in 1648 de jure. During the revolt, the United Provinces of the Netherlands, better known as the Dutch Republic, rapidly grew to become a world power through its merchant shipping and experienced a period of economic, scientific, and cultural growth.

The Southern Netherlands (situated in modern-day Belgium, Luxembourg, northern France and southern Netherlands; see Spanish Netherlands and French Netherlands) remained under Spanish rule. The continuous heavy-handed rule by the Spanish in the south caused many of its financial, intellectual, and cultural elite to flee north, contributing to the success of the Dutch Republic. The Dutch imposed a rigid blockade on the southern provinces which prevented Baltic grain relieving famine in the southern towns, especially in the years 1587-9. Additionally, by the end of the war in 1648 large areas of the Southern Netherlands had been lost to France which had, under the guidance of Cardinal Richelieu and Louis XIII of France, allied itself with the Dutch Republic in the 1630s against Spain.

The first phase of the conflict can be considered to be the Dutch War of Independence. The focus of the latter phase was to gain official recognition of the already de facto independence of the United Provinces. This phase coincided with the rise of the Dutch Republic as a major power and the founding of the Dutch colonial empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Revolt




By the way, there are definitely more remnants in Dutch from the French occupation than there are from the Spanish entanglements. I would be inclined to think it is therefore more likely a remnant from French (se permettre also exists in French). But it's interesting all the same. ;)