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-   -   How to pronounce veinte - Page 3 (https://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=6426)

How to pronounce veinte - Page 3


AngelicaDeAlquezar December 30, 2009 04:41 PM
@Chewy: Do you mean "consonants" ("consonantes" in Spanish)? :thinking:

No single consonant makes a syllable by itself. They always need a vowel at least. :)

irmamar December 31, 2009 12:10 AM
¡Ah,consonantes! I didn't understand it. Yes, Angélica is right. But there is a consonant that can make a syllable by itself: y when it's isolated, never joined to a vowel (though its sound is like /i/). Thanks, Angélica. :)

chewy December 31, 2009 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar (Post 67014)
@Chewy: Do you mean "consonants" ("consonantes" in Spanish)? :thinking:

No single consonant makes a syllable by itself. They always need a vowel at least. :)
Thanks Angelica! :D *hug you*

Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 67040)
¡Ah,consonantes! I didn't understand it. Yes, Angélica is right. But there is a consonant that can make a syllable by itself: y when it's isolated, never joined to a vowel (though its sound is like /i/). Thanks, Angélica. :)
Please forgive for my spelling :)
Apart from Y, what other consontantes can we make syllable itself?

irmamar December 31, 2009 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy (Post 67041)
Thanks Angelica! :D *hug you*



Please forgive for my spelling :)
Apart from Y, what other consontantes can we make syllable itself?
As Angélica said, none. :)

CrOtALiTo December 31, 2009 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 66999)
I also just this afternoon bugged my Peruvian friend to say "veinte" for me a zillion times and made her say it slow ... and fast ... and had to pull the car over so that I could WATCH her say it ... and then I had her listen to ME say it, the same way, slow, fast, etc. She insists that I'm saying it correctly AND that you all are correct that it's "-eh" more than "-ay". AND .... so I assume that our American/English ears are hearing one thing and our American/English brains might be thinking another. Quite possibly I've been over analyzing this (but you all know me well enough by now that you are already aware of this tendency that I have ... LOL!!) I'll just make sure that I am careful not to pronounce dipthongs when I speak Spanish, because I know that this is a big obstacle to English-speakers learning Spanish.... A young Salvadoran friend of mine says that her biggest pet peave when English speakers try to speak Spanish is the "o"'s.... (But let's not address THAT one at this time nor in this thread......)

Interesting your experience with your Latin friend.

Really you should assess when you ear something more of knowledge with your friends.:D

xchic January 27, 2010 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar (Post 66862)
It is true that there is no difference between "b" and "v" in Spanish, both are pronounced with a soft "b" sound.
(Although many people actually pronounce them differently, it's well understood anyway.)

There must be something wrong with my ear, because I cannot hear the "tay". :thinking:

As for the recording, as soon as I have access to a microphone, I'll upload the file for you to hear it. :)
this is an ongoing discussion here, so it's good to see a native speaker saying this:)

where I live the 'b' is a definite 'v' sound & vice versa

so much so that it sounds like 'una votella de bino'

I was originally taught by a lady from a different area & her 'b's & 'v's were pretty much interchangeable, if there was any noticeable difference it was that they were close to the English pronunciation

irmamar January 27, 2010 09:36 AM
Theres no difference between v/b pronunciation. Of course, when you're writing you must follow the rules. There's a difference between vello/bello, vaca/baca, votar/botar, etc. Anyway, the pronunciation is the same. :)

CarmenCarmona January 27, 2010 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xchic (Post 70148)
this is an ongoing discussion here, so it's good to see a native speaker saying this:)

where I live the 'b' is a definite 'v' sound & vice versa

so much so that it sounds like 'una votella de bino'

I was originally taught by a lady from a different area & her 'b's & 'v's were pretty much interchangeable, if there was any noticeable difference it was that they were close to the English pronunciation
Hiya!

There is something called 'complementary distribution of phonemes' that you should take into account.

For instance, in the verb 'beber' the phoneme /b/ is NOT pronounced in the same way in both positions.

I believe that the second /b/ is an allophone (sound variation within a phoneme) because it is in intervocalic position and as all vowels are voiced (vocal cords vibrate when producing them) it becomes voiced as well through the process of assimilation. Therefore, it would be realized as a kind of English /v/.

Anyone has the faintest idea about whether I am right or wrong? cos am just speculating!

irmamar January 28, 2010 02:29 AM
just speculating ;) :D

/b/ is bilabial (Spanish b and v), while /v/ is labiodental (English v). In Spanish /b/ has two allophones: a plosive [b], when it follows a nasal consonant or after a pause, and the approximant [β] (in the other occasions).

I don't know if there is a Spanish speaker country or region where /v/ is pronounced, but I guess there isn't any.

:)

CarmenCarmona January 28, 2010 03:26 AM
Yeah, that's the sound I was referring to! thanks!
Didn't remember it was an approximant! (It's been three years since I last studied Spanish phonetics but yesterday I had my English phonetics exam..don't you think I should forget about the subject for a while? haha)

Anyway, so what is the acoustic difference between /b/ and /β/?

irmamar January 28, 2010 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmenCarmona (Post 70283)
Yeah, that's the sound I was referring to! thanks!
Didn't remember it was an approximant! (It's been three years since I last studied Spanish phonetics but yesterday I had my English phonetics exam..don't you think I should forget about the subject for a while? haha)

Anyway, so what is the acoustic difference between /b/ and /β/?
Good luck with your exam :)

Quite difficult to explain :thinking: (above all in English :D ). As you said before, in [β], /b/ is not so closed as in [b] and I guess it should be voiced between two vowels (though not labiodental, as /v/): avería, abeto. In [b] lips are closer: enviar, embrion. Try to say these words in front of a mirror and look at your lips. :)

Anyway, I studied Phonetics some years ago :thinking:

And remember: [alófonos] /fonemas/ (teachers are very strict -and it's the same in English- ;) ) :)

CarmenCarmona January 29, 2010 11:04 AM
Thanks a million!

you are a very...illuminating person! haha or I may be feeling weird because it's the first time I'm on a forum! haha

irmamar January 29, 2010 12:09 PM
:confused: Illuminating? :lol: :lol:

Welcome to the forums, then :)

Perikles January 29, 2010 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmenCarmona (Post 70437)
or I may be feeling weird because it's the first time I'm on a forum! haha
Beware! After a time on the forum, you will find it completely normal, and that actually speaking to somebody face to face is weird. :rolleyes:

irmamar January 29, 2010 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 70449)
Beware! After a time on the forum, you will find it completely normal, and that actually speaking to somebody face to face is weird. :rolleyes:
:applause: You're right :D :D

CarmenCarmona January 31, 2010 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 70453)
:applause: You're right :D :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 70449)
Beware! After a time on the forum, you will find it completely normal, and that actually speaking to somebody face to face is weird. :rolleyes:
Well I hope it doesn't get to that extent!


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