Dormir

Dormir
 

I think there's an error in the conjugation of dormir, but I could be wrong myself. In class, we learned about how certain -ir verbs stem change only in the third person form in the preterit [for dormir, o > u - durmió, durmieron]. however, when I checked the conjugation list the él, ella, Ud, Uds, ellos, and ellas form had no stem change...is there supposed to be? Am I wrong?

That's correct, Jessica. You're on the ball!

I moved this thread to the 'Suggestions' forum so that David will see it and make the correction. The imperfect subjunctive also needs changed, for all persons (in both forms).

Also pres. subj. (durmamos, durmáis) and the imperative (durmamos, no durmáis).

We have used Dormimos, dormiamos, durmio.

Greetings

:confused:

Aunque nosotros durmamos pocas horas, por la mañana estamos despejados (pres. subj.)
Aunque vosotros durmáis mucho, siempre estáis atontados. (pres. subj.).

Durmamos, que mañana hay que madrugar (imper.)
No os durmáis en los laureles. (imper.)

Where do you say "dormimos, dormíamos, durmió" with imperative or pres. subj.? :thinking:

;)

no stem change? no o -> u?

Dormimos and dormíamos is the 1st person plural, not the third one. ;)

Really your Spanish is very different to the mine, because well just we don't use the word durmaís in our speech.


But they literally are the same in the meaning, although they have a little to grammatic in the words.

Well, grammar is grammar, here and in Mexico. :) :rose:

Es curioso que cambie la raíz a pesar de no tener la sílaba enfatizada. Pero bueno, yo no soy el que defiende que el español sea lógico... ;P

It seems to be restricted to a few -ir verbs - any idea why? :thinking:

@Irma: No, conjugation is the same everywhere, at least for "dormir".

@Perikles & pjt: por razones eufónicas. ;)

I know that the grammar is grammar here in anywhere, but only I was opining about the thread.

I'm sorry if my commentary was very impertinent:confused:

Todo tiene una explicación, sólo hay que querer buscarla. Y ésta es las leyes fonéticas que han motivado los cambios en el español a partir del latín vulgar.

1ª fase:
o > ue: verbos de 1ª y 2ª conjugación (y dormir y morir) con vocal en o en la raíz diptongan en ue: duermo.

2ª fase:
ue > u: por debilitación vocálica (vocales átonas) se pierde la segunda vocal del diptongo: durmió.

Todas cambio lingüístico sigue una máxima: la ley del mínimo esfuerzo.

Could you define vocales átonas for me?

dormí
dormiste
durmió
dormimos
dormisteis
durmieron

The change occurs here when the accent does not fall on the vowel after the 'o'. :thinking:

This had me really puzzled until I realized that una máxima is not un máximo :rolleyes:

Durmió: "u" is unstressed (átona). Losing the last vowel in a diphthong is easier if none of the vowels is stressed.

I guess the change would have been:

dormió > duermió > durmió.

Una máxima is a rule, an idea, a doctrine. :)

OK but then why not durmí
durmiste
as well ? :thinking:


Yes, in English usually a maxim :)

Because the most used verbs are the ones which are irregular. And in a irregular verb, the persons who have most changes are the most used.

It's been studied that the third person singular is the most used and the first to be learned, so, usually, it receives the main changes. Other forms are resistant to changes, though the first one is the second which usually changes (more than the second person).

Furthermore, the third person plural of indefinite or preterit is used to form the imperfect and future of subjunctive (without the ending -on): durmieron - durmieran /dumiesen, durmieren.

(Or I think so).

:)

Thanks, Irma - I find this really interesting. I suppose the 3rd person plural is the second most used part of the verb, and this explains why the vowel changes, with the change taken over into the subjunctive. :)

Yes, I mean that the first person was the second after the third (both singular and plural). :)

Anyway, everything is a theory, but I guess this is good enough to understand these changes. Furthermore, these theories or hypothesis are based on studies of the language. You can find in the Internet a lot of them about the verb 'dormir' or 'morir' (with the same irregularity), where both forms (the newer one with 'u' or the older one with 'o' can be found in texts from XII century (Cantar del Mío Cid and Gonzalo de Berceo):

El verbo castellano morir derívase del vulgar moriré, según vimos en el
capítulo de los sufijos de perfecto, y no del clásico mori, como antes se creía;
todos se refieren á la raíz mar, que encierra la misma idea; cf. muer-te, mor-
tal, mor-bo. El participio mortuo perdió la u por la ley novena, cf. batuo y
bato, y la o de la raíz se transformó en ice por la ley fonética veinte, resultan-
do muerto. Las transformaciones de estos verbos se hallan ya en los primeros
monumentos del idioma castellano: «&* nos muriéremos en campo, en castiello
nos enterraran)) (P, del Cid), nCayen en vn poco de logar moros muertos mili e
GGG ya)) (ibíd.). «Vn suenno prisso dulce, tan bien se adurmió» (ibíd.). <íEI
pastor que non duerme» (Berc, S. D., 24). € Apremió la cabera, fosse adormi-
tando)) (id., S. M., 10). Pero no se encuentran usadas con la misma regulari-
dad y simetría que en la actualidad. Al lado de durmió dice Berceo: dMientre
tapie dormiendoy> (S. Mili., 10). aQuando veno la noch la ora que dormiessen»
(Mili., 347).
http://www.archive.org/stream/morfol...cgoog_djvu.txt

:)