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Verb and indirect object


danh June 13, 2011 01:02 AM

Verb and indirect object
 
So, some homework. I don't understand this. The questions are:

A mi hijo no ____ ____ los aguacates.
AND
Al chico ____ ____ bucear en el mar.
AND
A nosotros no ____ ____ nuestros vecinos.

My attempts were:
A mi hijo no gusta mi los aguacates. (Translated, my son doesn't like my avocados)
AND
Al chico gusta mi bucear en el mar. (Translated, the boy likes my diving into the ocean)
AND
A nosotros no nos gusta a nuestros vecinos.

Is this correct?

Perikles June 13, 2011 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danh (Post 112124)
So, some homework. I don't understand this. The questions are:

A mi hijo no ____ ____ los aguacates.
AND
Al chico ____ ____ bucear en el mar.
AND
A nosotros no ____ ____ nuestros vecinos.

My attempts were:
A mi hijo no gusta mi los aguacates. (Translated, my son doesn't like my avocados)
AND
Al chico gusta mi bucear en el mar. (Translated, the boy likes my diving into the ocean)
AND
A nosotros no nos gusta a nuestros vecinos.

Is this correct?

No it isn't. When you have an indirect object in this construction, then you have to repeat the indirect personal pronoun:

A mi hijo no le gusta los aguacates
Al chico le gusta bucear en el mar
A nosotros no nos gustan nuestros vecinos

(You'll need someone better informed than me to confim this)

danh June 13, 2011 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 112125)
No it isn't. When you have an indirect object in this construction, then you have to repeat the indirect personal pronoun:

A mi hijo no le gusta los aguacates
Al chico le gusta bucear en el mar
A nosotros no nos gustan nuestros vecinos

(You'll need someone better informed than me to confim this)

Thanks. Why do you repeat the indirect personal pronoun? When do you use it as well?

Perikles June 13, 2011 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danh (Post 112129)
Thanks. Why do you repeat the indirect personal pronoun? When do you use it as well?

Someone else should answer this. It is that cursed verb gustar which makes life difficult. My grammar book says the repetition is required to avoid an ambiguity in the 3rd person sing. and plural., but I don't really understand it. :thinking:

irmamar June 13, 2011 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 112125)
No it isn't. When you have an indirect object in this construction, then you have to repeat the indirect personal pronoun:

A mi hijo no le gusta los aguacates :bad:
Al chico le gusta bucear en el mar :good:
A nosotros no nos gustan nuestros vecinos :good:

(You'll need someone better informed than me to confim this)

"Los aguacates" is the subject, and the verb must agree with it. ;)

The indirect objects are:

Yo - Me.
Tú - Te.
Él/ella/usted - Le (se).
Nosotros - Nos.
Vosotros - Os.
Ellos/ellas/ustedes - Les (se).

Repetition is necessary if there isn't a referent. :)

Danh, your translations are wrong. ;)

Perikles June 13, 2011 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 112135)
"Los aguacates" is the subject, and the verb must agree with it. ;)

:banghead: I corrected the third sentence. Typo ;)

irmamar June 13, 2011 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 112137)
:banghead: I corrected the third sentence. Typo ;)

Sí, sí, typo, typo. Eso es lo que dicen todos. :lol: :lol: :kiss:

aleCcowaN June 13, 2011 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danh (Post 112129)
Thanks. Why do you repeat the indirect personal pronoun? When do you use it as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 112131)
Someone else should answer this. It is that cursed verb gustar which makes life difficult. My grammar book says the repetition is required to avoid an ambiguity in the 3rd person sing. and plural., but I don't really understand it. :thinking:

"Mi hijo gusta los aguacates" suggests he savours them, or tastes them, or perhaps he relishes them.
"A mi hijo le gustan los aguacates" or "Mi hijo gusta de los aguacates" say it's a matter of likings. The first one -the usual form- shows the subject attracted by the appeal of the liked item.

Hybrid forms like:

A mi hijo gusta los aguacates :bad:

are almost impossible to parse, and it suggests the avocados are wolfing down the son.

Danh, all those structures exist to sort out all the possible meanings. The fact that you are learning just one of them makes it look like it is arbitrarily complicated.

Luna Azul June 13, 2011 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danh (Post 112124)
So, some homework. I don't understand this. The questions are:

A mi hijo no _le_ _gustan_ los aguacates.
AND
Al chico _le_ _gusta_ bucear en el mar.
AND
A nosotros no _nos_ _gustan_ nuestros vecinos.

My attempts were:
A mi hijo no gusta mi los aguacates. (Translated, my son doesn't like my avocados):bad:
AND
Al chico gusta mi bucear en el mar. (Translated, the boy likes my diving into the ocean):bad:
AND
A nosotros no nos gusta a nuestros vecinos. :bad:

Is this correct?

Quote:

Why do you repeat the indirect personal pronoun? When do you use it as well?
That is called "redundant pronoun"

Word order in Spanish is quite flexible, as opposed to English that's far more strict.

Sentences where the object is at the beginning of the sentence are very common. If such a construction with a leading object is used, the personal pronoun of the object must be repeated before the verb in order to avoid ambiguity, especially in the third persons. Those are like "tricks" the language uses with that purpose. Even though in the other persons that ambiguity doesn't really exist, the redundant pronoun is also always used.

It's also something that you'll understand better with time. This is no easy subject, so take a step at a time. Learn the pronouns and then you'll start understanding better.

I'll give you some examples that may help you:

I'm going to say

"She's not going to buy that house"


I can say "No va a comprar esa casa". No problem, right? However, since Spanish is so flexible I can say:

"Esa casa no la va a comprar" This is the correct sentence.

If I don't use "la" (redundant pronoun) the sentence would be:

"Esa casa no va a comprar". If I translate this sentence it will mean:

"That house is not going to buy". The house becomes the subject of the sentence. But the house is not going to buy anything, right?

I'll leave it here even though there's more to say about this, but this hopefully answers your question and I don't want to confuse you more..:p

;)

Rusty June 13, 2011 10:35 AM

Luna Azul gave an example of a redundant direct object pronoun.

Your exercises needed an indirect object pronoun. The indirect object pronoun is always used. In order to clarify the ambiguity in the third person, the indirect object may also be used (in addition to the IOP).
For example, in your first sentence 'no le gustan' is what belongs in the blanks. The indirect object 'a mi hijo' clarifies whom 'le' refers to. The IOP 'le' is mandatory. The indirect object 'a mi hijo' is only specified so the listener knows whom 'le' refers to.
The indirect object, which always starts with the preposition 'a', was provided in each exercise to help you figure out which of the indirect object pronouns to place in the blank which preceded the blank for the verb.

Luna Azul June 13, 2011 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 112158)
Luna Azul gave an example of a redundant direct object pronoun.

Your exercises needed an indirect object pronoun. The indirect object pronoun is always used. In order to clarify the ambiguity in the third person, the indirect object may also be used (in addition to the IOP).
For example, in your first sentence 'no le gustan' is what belongs in the blanks. The indirect object 'a mi hijo' clarifies whom 'le' refers to. The IOP 'le' is mandatory. The indirect object 'a mi hijo' is only specified so the listener knows whom 'le' refers to.
The indirect object, which always starts with the preposition 'a', was provided in each exercise to help you figure out which of the indirect object pronouns to place in the blank which preceded the blank for the verb.

Yes, you're right.;)


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