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-   -   Reino Unido se desmarca ... (https://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=12126)

Reino Unido se desmarca ...


Perikles December 09, 2011 10:36 AM

Reino Unido se desmarca ...
 
Reino Unido se desmarca del acuerdo para reforzar la Unión Europea

Could this be ambiguous? Without knowing the context, surely this headline could mean:

1. The UK distances itself from the agreement intended to reinforce the EU

or

2. The UK distances itself from the agreement, in order to reinforce the EU

Obviously, the second makes no political sense, but could it be a valid translation? If not, what would 2. be in Spanish? Thanks.

chileno December 09, 2011 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 119343)
Reino Unido se desmarca del acuerdo para reforzar la Unión Europea

Could this be ambiguous? Without knowing the context, surely this headline could mean:

1. The UK distances itself from the agreement intended to reinforce the EU

or

2. The UK distances itself from the agreement, in order to reinforce the EU

Obviously, the second makes no political sense, but could it be a valid translation? If not, what would 2. be in Spanish? Thanks.


Both English version are OK.

To me the Spanish version should be:

Reino Unido se desmarca del acuerdo que refuerza/reforzaría la Unión Europea


EDIT:

I meant "Both phrases in English are OK", not necessarily meaning they reflect the Spanish phrase.

Don José December 09, 2011 11:55 AM

I think it's not ambiguous, but I know the context. :)

Possible translations for "2":

Reino Unido se desmarca del acuerdo, para reforzar la Unión Europea.
Para reforzar la Unión Europea, el Reino Unido se desmarca del acuerdo.

I prefer "el" Reino Unido, but sometimes it is used without the article.

A "famous" anecdote about commas:

Quote:

El filólogo José Antonio Millán recuerda una anécdota atribuida a Carlos V en el prólogo de su reciente libro Perdón imposible (Del nuevo Extremo). El emperador debía firmar una sentencia que decía así: “Perdón imposible, que cumpla su condena”. Pero el monarca, según se cuenta, cambió la coma de sitio antes de firmar, “perdón, imposible que cumpla su condena”, y de ese modo cambió la suerte de algún desgraciado.
Quote:

Originally Posted by chileno (Post 119347)
Both English version are OK.

But they have different meanings...

Quote:

Originally Posted by chileno (Post 119347)
To me the Spanish version should be:

Reino Unido se desmarca del acuerdo que refuerza/reforzaría la Unión Europea

Yes, this would be much better than the original headline. No possible ambiguity.

chileno December 09, 2011 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don José (Post 119350)
But they have different meanings...

Yes.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Don José (Post 119350)
Yes, this would be much better than the original headline. No possible ambiguity.

I thought the Spanish version is the one that's slacking.

aleCcowaN December 09, 2011 02:14 PM

To me, the only and unambiguous meaning is -maybe they are speaking other Spanish than mine- that the UK changes from a position of being forced to agree upon some treaty already "cooked" to a position that may imply she is willing to sign a treaty but also decided to negotiate or renegotiate the terms of it and make her voice heard. "Desmarcarse" doesn't imply a will to play a different game but rather being able to play the same game without suffocating bounds.

Perikles December 09, 2011 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN (Post 119359)
To me, the only and unambiguous meaning is -maybe they are speaking other Spanish than mine- that the UK changes from a position of being forced to agree upon some treaty already "cooked" to a position that may imply she is willing to sign a treaty but also decided to negotiate or renegotiate the terms of it and make her voice heard. "Desmarcarse" doesn't imply a will to play a different game but rather being able to play the same game without suffocating bounds.

That does not reflect the actual political situation. The EU has made another treaty, and the UK has not agreed to it.

Perhaps we should not attempt to read too much into a headline. Thanks all. :)

aleCcowaN December 09, 2011 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 119360)
That does not reflect the actual political situation. The EU has made another treaty, and the UK has not agreed to it.

Perhaps we should not attempt to read too much into a headline. Thanks all. :)

So then "desmarcarse" is just used there in the sense of having UK's check box "unticked" regarding to the list of countries willing to sign such a treaty. We don't use "desmarcarse" in that sense; we'd use "desanotarse", "apartarse" or the colloquial "borrarse".

chileno December 09, 2011 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN (Post 119367)
So then "desmarcarse" is just used there in the sense of having UK's check box "unticked" regarding to the list of countries willing to sign such a treaty. We don't use "desmarcarse" in that sense; we'd use "desanotarse", "apartarse" or the colloquial "borrarse".

As in "withdrawing from..."

AngelicaDeAlquezar December 09, 2011 06:28 PM

I don't see any ambiguity as this is a headline, so "el acuerdo para reforzar la Unión Europea" can't be separated; otherwise, the sentence wouldn't make much sense. "El acuerdo" just like that in a headline should be only one possible agreement in the world (the agreement).

If the sentence were found in the middle of the article, this amphibology (woohoo!) could take place, but the context (and perhaps a comma) would (hopefully) make the meaning clear.;)

"Reino Unido se desmarca del acuerdo, para reforzar la Unión Europea."

Don José December 10, 2011 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN (Post 119367)
So then "desmarcarse" is just used there in the sense of having UK's check box "unticked" regarding to the list of countries willing to sign such a treaty. We don't use "desmarcarse" in that sense; we'd use "desanotarse", "apartarse" or the colloquial "borrarse".

In Spain, "desmarcarse" would be fine as well as the others, with the exception of "desanotarse".

Desmarcar
1. tr. Separar de un grupo, apartar. U. m. c. prnl. 2. prnl. Dicho de un jugador: En algunos deportes, desplazarse para burlar al contrario que lo marca.


http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltCons...&LEMA=demarcar

ROBINDESBOIS December 10, 2011 09:12 AM

I agree


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