LES or SEPAN

LES or SEPAN
 

how do you correctly say I DON'T WANT THEM TO KNOW I SPEAK SPANISH

i said it was NO LES QUIERO SABER QUE YO SE ESPANOL

i asked a spanish woman on the street and she said i was wrong

she said it's NO QUIERO QUE SEPAN QUE YO HABLO ESPANOL

who is right?

She is right, hola. "No quiero que sepan que hablo/sé español" is the correct one.

No les quiero decir que sé/hablo español.
I don't want to tell them I speak Spanish.

The second one is right.

so what does NO LES QUIERO SABER QUE YO SE ESPANOL mean?

this is what i usually say and it's what i meant to say to the girl

the ending is irrelevant (....QUE YO SE ESPANOL/QUE YO HABLO ESPANOL)

it's the beginning that i am questioning

i believe it's NO LES QUIERO SABER

she said it's NO QUIERO QUE SEPAN

who is right when it comes to the first half of the sentence?

'No les quiero saber means nothing' :sad: = yo no quiero saber a ustedes (les) :confused: The best construction would be: yo no quiero que ustedes sepan...

You can use "les" with another verb, for instance:

No les dije a ustedes que yo sabía español.

:)

They, not you.

Hola, to say this properly requires some advanced verb conjugation: the subjunctive mood. It's often confused with a tense by English speakers who don't think that English has a subjunctive, but actually moods are separate from tenses.

Tense is about when: distant past, recent past, present, future, etc. Mood is (vaguely!) about the reality of the action expressed in the verb. You're probably familiar with three moods from English: the indicative (default: simple statement of fact); conditional (statement hypothecated on another); imperative (command to make the statement true). (Some people classify the infinitive as a mood too, but that's arguable).

The subjunctive mood indicates hypothetical or untrue statements. It exists in English, but most native speakers are unaware of it. Sample usages:

If I were you, I would ... (hypothetical in subjunctive, statement hypothecated on it in conditional; this carries over into Spanish as imperfect subjunctive + present conditional; or pluperfect subjunctive + imperfect conditional).
God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen (expression of desire rather than statement of fact; in some sense, you could argue that the first one at least is a 3rd person imperative, and again this carries over: imperatives other than tú and vosotros in Spanish use the subjunctive).

Here you're saying "I don't want them to know that I speak Spanish"; in English it appears to use an infinitive, but you can recast it (somewhat unnaturally) as "I don't want that they know that I speak Spanish". Since it's an expression of desire rather than a statement of fact it requires the subjunctive.

It is impossible to speak fluent Spanish without the subjunctive, but I don't know what your level is. If you're still learning the tenses in the indicative then maybe you should focus on that first. I know that my teachers didn't mention the subjunctive until I'd been studying Spanish for nearly three years (and I never learnt it in French, despite studying that for five).


PD Irma, "no quiero saber a ellos" sería "I don't want to taste like them", ¿no? ;)

LES ...... SEPAN

I can only think of this sentence with the word ... LES...

-No quiero darles a saber que hablo español.
-No quiero que sepan que hablo español.

they are both correct.

:cool:

Sorry, I didn't realize of that "them".

Excelente! :)

La primera opción también podría decirse: No les quiero hacer saber que hablo español.

pjt33's explanation was excellent
i really appreciate her taking the time to analyze it

but you know what?
i don't care what nobody says
i still do not see why or where "NO LES QUIERO SABER....." is wrong

in spanish the nouns are placed before the verbs
i have done that
i have also conjugated

i am sorry i don't see how these 2 sentences are different
i don't see where or how mine is wrong

NO LES QUIERO SABER QUE YO SE ESPANOL
NO QUIERO QUE SEPAN QUE YO SE ESPANOL

they both say i don't want them to know i speak spanish

how and where does mine NOT say it???

Hola,

Nouns do not have to be placed before the verb in Spanish.
Pronouns usually go before the verb, though. Perhaps that's what you meant.

Les is an indirect object pronoun. It doesn't belong in your sentence.
Let me explain why.

The verb querer, which you correctly conjugated, requires a DIRECT OBJECT. If the direct object is a noun clause, a conjunction (que) is used and the verb in the clause must be cast in the subjunctive mood because querer is a verb of volition (when it means want). That explains everything that follows quiero in the correct version of the sentence.
If the subject isn't changing (which is NOT the case in your sentence), the conjugated verb quiero would be followed by an infinitive (saber), and the translation would be I want to know. Then you follow that with a clause that details what it is that you want to know.

In English, the subjunctive isn't used very much. Therefore, you won't see very many instances of the verb-of-volition+conjunction+subjunctive-mood-clause constructions. But this construct is VERY prevalent in Spanish. It's the only way to say that you want someone to do something.

English:
I want them to know ...
becomes:
I want that they know ...
(yo) quiero que (ellos) sepan ...

Key:
purple word = subject of main clause
green word = main verb (one of volition)
underscored word = conjunction (always que)
lighter purple word = subject of secondary clause
lighter green word = verb of secondary clause, cast in the subjunctive mood

Hope this explanation helps!

Him, not her. (Not offended - it's a common mistake - but I thought it best to clarify).

To repeat Rusty but from a different angle: you have two verbs. "I don't want" "them to know". The person doing the wanting (or not) is you: the people doing the knowing (or not) are them.

Les, as Rusty has said, is an indirect object pronoun (or, if you speak use a non-prestige variation of Spanish grammar called leísmo it could be a direct object pronoun). But in terms of knowing "they" are the subject, not the object. The sentence breaks down as

subject verb object=(subject verb object)
I (don't want) ((them) (to know) (that I speak Spanish))

So if you're going to use a pronoun for "them" it has to be "ellos" or "ellas", and it has to go next to the relevant verb. However, in Spanish the subject pronoun can always be eliminated (possibly at the cost of ambiguity) because it can be inferred from the ending. A change in subject from the first verb to the second is therefore incompatible with the second verb being in the infinitive.

By the way, do you speak any other languages? There might be parallel concepts which make it easier to tie in to things you already know.

Rusty's explanation was excellent too
it was fairly detailed

basically i chose to use an IOP instead of conjugating saber
if you analyze it that's what happened that's the core of the problem
i was under the impression that IOPs can be used at will
i thought there would be no difference

there must be another rule at play here
something that i am unaware of

@Hola: When you say "no quiero saberles que sé español", is as incorrect as if you were saying "I don't want to know them I speak spanish".
The equivalent correction "I don't want them to know..." is "no quiero que sepan...".

It's not about conveying a message, it is about writing it correctly.

You can convey a message with the worst grammar there is but learning a language goes beyond making yourself understood.

My :twocents:

angelica i stsrted my sentence with no LES quiero saber but i think i see where its wrong