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Spanish language learning forums (https://forums.tomisimo.org/index.php)

- Grammar (https://forums.tomisimo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19)

- - Spanish expressions for time (https://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=6917)

Spanish expressions for time

laepelba

January 23, 2010 05:12 PM

Spanish expressions for time

If this has been discussed in another thread, I'm having trouble finding it. But I find it hard to believe that I'm the first to ask. I'll go ahead anyway. If you know of another appropriate thread, please point me in that direction........

If I want to say that something started in the past and is ongoing, I can say:
Estudio español hace un año.
Or
Hace un año que estudio español.

Now, a book that I'm using to study says that it would also be equivalent to say:
Estudio español desde hace un año.

But I have a friend, born and raised in the United States, but who now lives in Bolivia (for quite a few years now) ... and this friend insists that you cannot use "desde" with "hace" for time phrases. She insists that "desde" means that something happened "from" a certain time. She tells me that you can use one or the other but not both. So that is my first question. Is my phrase with "desde hace" equivalent to the other two phrases? :?:

My next question is how to express something in the past that also ended in the past. If I want to say that I studied Spanish in college 20 years ago, could I also say:
Estudié español hace veinte años en la universidad.

For some reason I seem to remember being told that this is how to say it. But then how do you distinguish between the action that hasn't yet ended and the action that ended twenty years ago? :?:

chileno

January 23, 2010 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 69733)

If this has been discussed in another thread, I'm having trouble finding it. But I find it hard to believe that I'm the first to ask. I'll go ahead anyway. If you know of another appropriate thread, please point me in that direction........

If I want to say that something started in the past and is ongoing, I can say:
Estudio español hace un año.
Or
Hace un año que estudio español.

Now, a book that I'm using to study says that it would also be equivalent to say:
Estudio español desde hace un año.

But I have a friend, born and raised in the United States, but who now lives in Bolivia (for quite a few years now) ... and this friend insists that you cannot use "desde" with "hace" for time phrases. She insists that "desde" means that something happened "from" a certain time. She tells me that you can use one or the other but not both. So that is my first question. Is my phrase with "desde hace" equivalent to the other two phrases? :?:

My next question is how to express something in the past that also ended in the past. If I want to say that I studied Spanish in college 20 years ago, could I also say:
Estudié español hace veinte años en la universidad. :good:

For some reason I seem to remember being told that this is how to say it. But then how do you distinguish between the action that hasn't yet ended and the action that ended twenty years ago? :?:

Very easy. :D

He estado estudiando inglés por un año - I have been studying English for a year.

He estado estudiando inglés desde un año atrás - I have been studying English since a year ago.

laepelba

January 23, 2010 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chileno (Post 69734)

Very easy. :D

He estado estudiando inglés por un año - I have been studying English for a year.

He estado estudiando inglés desde un año atrás - I have been studying English since a year ago.

Huh? You didn't answer either of my questions...... ???

chileno

January 23, 2010 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 69735)

Huh? You didn't answer either of my questions...... ???

You are right. I forgot to include one more sentence.

He estado estudiando inglés por un año - I have been studying English for a year.

He estado estudiando inglés desde un año atrás - I have been studying English since a year ago.

Hace un año empecé a estudiar Inglés. - It's been a year since I started to study English.

:):):)

Try to use my mistakes and those of others when writing English to see how certain terms are used in Spanish.

laepelba

January 23, 2010 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chileno (Post 69737)

You still didn't answer either of my questions.............. :thinking:

chileno

January 23, 2010 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 69738)

You still didn't answer either of my questions.............. :thinking:

Ok Lou Ann:

You tell me how would you write what you are asking in English.

Use a phrase of your preference, do not even try to mix Spanish here.

laepelba

January 23, 2010 05:52 PM

In my first question, I was saying "I have been studying Spanish for one year." I gave two ways that I believe are correct to say that. My question was about "desde hace".

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 69733)

My next question is how to express something in the past that also ended in the past. If I want to say that I studied Spanish in college 20 years ago, could I also say:
Estudié español hace veinte años en la universidad.

For some reason I seem to remember being told that this is how to say it. But then how do you distinguish between the action that hasn't yet ended and the action that ended twenty years ago? :?:

For my second question, I stated what I wanted to say. "I studied Spanish in college 20 years ago."

chileno

January 23, 2010 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 69740)

In my first question, I was saying "I have been studying Spanish for one year." I gave two ways that I believe are correct to say that. My question was about "desde hace".

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba http://forums.tomisimo.org/images/sm...5/viewpost.gif
My next question is how to express something in the past that also ended in the past. If I want to say that I studied Spanish in college 20 years ago, could I also say:
Estudié español hace veinte años en la universidad. :good::good::good::good:

For some reason I seem to remember being told that this is how to say it. But then how do you distinguish between the action that hasn't yet ended and the action that ended twenty years ago? :?:

For my second question, I stated what I wanted to say. "I studied Spanish in college 20 years ago."

I added 4 :good::good::good::good: to your quote on this one, on the original I only added 1:good:

Then I made a mistake on the phrase:

I have been studying Spanish for one year - He estado estudiando español (desde) hace un año. Con desde o sin, es lo mismo.

There.

I am not asking you to have patience with me, but with yourself. :)

One more thing. When you get into that state of mind where you cannot even stand yourself, please do not try to write other posts, just get up, go outside the room, take sip of water and then come back. That usually works wonders.

It makes you see thing you had in front of you, and could not see.

laepelba

January 23, 2010 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 69733)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chileno (Post 69742)

Thanks for the answer to the first question. I'm still not sure about the second. I've highlighted what I wanted to know in red above.

I'm always patient with you, Hernán. I always appreciate your encouragement! :rose:

chileno

January 23, 2010 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 69744)

You are welcome.

Now, I am sending the ball to your court and ask you the same thing but in English.

Please provide, in English, a couple of phrases that will reflect an action that started in the past and still is happening, and another where the action ended already a year or 20 years ago.

Just plain English.

laepelba

January 23, 2010 06:13 PM

I have been studying Spanish for a year.
I studied Spanish twenty years ago in college.

I have been watching television for five hours this afternoon.
I watched television for five hours on Thursday.

I have been at the hairdresser for two hours already.
I was at the hairdresser for three hours yesterday.

chileno

January 23, 2010 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 69746)

I have been studying Spanish for a year. - He estado estudiando español por un año.
I studied Spanish twenty years ago in college.- Estudié español (hace) 20 años atrás.
I have been watching television for five hours this afternoon.- He estado viendo televisión por cinco horas esta tarde.
I watched television for five hours on Thursday. - Ví televisión por cinco horas el jueves.

I have been at the hairdresser for two hours already.- He estado en la peluqería por dos horas.
I was at the hairdresser for three hours yesterday.- Estuve en la peluquería por tres horas ayer.

Now consider the following:

I have been watching tv since 5pm. - He estado viendo tele desde las 5pm.

I have been watching tv since 5 hours ago. He estado viendo tele desde hace 5 horas atrás.

Now i think I nailed it for you. :)

laepelba

January 23, 2010 06:34 PM

Let me re-state what I'm trying to ask about. The section in the book I'm reading uses "hace" with time-related phrases. So my questions are all about "hace". I have been understanding that you want to go in the directino of "he estado" + present participle, etc. - to direct me away from the "hace" ... but my questions were really specific about what I want to get at:

1) Is "desde hace" equivalent to "hace" in that kind of construction? (i.e. Is my Bolivian-dwelling friend wrong?)
2) How do I know if "Estudio español hace veinte años" means "I have been studying Spanish for twenty years" or if it means "I studied Spanish twenty years ago"?

You answered the first. I'm still not sure about the second.....

chileno

January 23, 2010 06:42 PM

"Desde hace" is used, but each by themselves serve the same purpose.

(desde) Hace tres horas que te estoy esperando. it's been 3 hours since I am waiting for you.
Te estoy esperando desde las tres de la tarde. I am waiting/have been waiting since 3 pm.

Since 3pm that I've been waiting for you. Desde las 3pm que te he estado esperando/ que he estado esperando por ti.

AngelicaDeAlquezar

January 23, 2010 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 69733)

If I want to say that something started in the past and is ongoing, I can say:
Estudio español desde hace un año.
Or
Hace un año que estudio español.:good:

Now, a book that I'm using to study says that it would also be equivalent to say:
Estudio español desde hace un año.

Your book is right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 69733)

But I have a friend, born and raised in the United States, but who now lives in Bolivia (for quite a few years now) ... and this friend insists that you cannot use "desde" with "hace" for time phrases. She insists that "desde" means that something happened "from" a certain time. She tells me that you can use one or the other but not both. So that is my first question. Is my phrase with "desde hace" equivalent to the other two phrases? :?:

I think your friend is wrong. If you say "estudio español desde un año", it's an incorrect and fragmentary sentence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 69733)

My next question is how to express something in the past that also ended in the past. If I want to say that I studied Spanish in college 20 years ago, could I also say:
Estudié español hace veinte años en la universidad. :good:

For some reason I seem to remember being told that this is how to say it. But then how do you distinguish between the action that hasn't yet ended and the action that ended twenty years ago? :?:

The verbal tense is what will tell you whether the action has already ended or if it hasn't.

"Hace un año que estudio español" = "Estudio español desde hace un año" -> you're still studying, because "estudio" is present tense.

"Estudié español hace 20 años" -> Action ended 20 years ago. "Estudié" is past tense.

:)

laepelba

January 23, 2010 07:26 PM

Thanks, Malila - now both of my questions about "hace" have been answered. :kiss:

chileno

January 23, 2010 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar (Post 69756)

Your book is right.

I think your friend is wrong. If you say "estudio español desde un año", it's an incorrect and fragmentary sentence.

The verbal tense is what will tell you whether the action has already ended or if it hasn't.

"Hace un año que estudio español" = "Estudio español desde hace un año" -> you're still studying, because "estudio" is present tense.

"Estudié español hace 20 años" -> Action ended 20 years ago. "Estudié" is past tense.

:)

Excellent. Can you provide translations to English so Lou Ann can see the difference(s)?

irmamar

January 23, 2010 11:59 PM

You can say both:

Hace un año que estudio español, and
Estudio español desde hace un año.

But you can't say "desde" at the beginning of the sentence (Desde hace un año estudio español :thumbsdown:)

You can say "desde" only if the action has not finished.

:)

Perikles

January 24, 2010 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 69760)

But you can't say "desde" at the beginning of the sentence (Desde hace un año estudio español :thumbsdown:)

My grammar book gives Desde aquí se ve el mar. Is this OK if desde denotes direction rather than time since? :confused:

By the way, I think hace is very confusing. Am I right in thinking it is 3rd sg present of hacer, transmogrified into the conjunction, preposition or adverb since ? It makes parsing very difficult. :(

irmamar

January 24, 2010 03:33 AM

"Desde" is a preposition used in both time and place sentences (since and from).

Veo el mar desde aquí.
No estudio desde hace tiempo.

"Hace" is impersonal (hace tiempo que, hace frío, etc.). You can't say "hacen años" :bad:, but "hace años" :good:

:)

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