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Translating a simple paragraph (Exercise 13-18)
I am continuing to work through a book of basic Spanish grammar exercises, in an attempt to fill in some of the "holes" in the learning that I've done so far. It has been (I believe) very fruitful so far.
This exercise is from the first of several chapters on the subjunctive and asks me to translate a simple paragraph from English to Spanish. In fact, I don't have any questions about the use of the subjunctive here, but have some questions about other things within the paragraph. I want to ask a couple of questions, though. So I'm going to include here (1) the original English paragraph, (2) my original translation, and (3) the "corrected" translation. I will indicate my questions at the bottom of this post. Before I get to my questions, I'd like to say that I didn't like this exercise to begin with. Yes, it gave me experience choosing when to use the subjunctive vs. when not to do so. But the English paragraph was very poorly written. And I have my doubts about their choices for the Spanish as well..... Do you agree with me? My Questions: 1) I wrote the word order in the same way that the English was written. But for some reason, the Spanish phrase "Bob llega tarde a la oficina de vez en cuando" doesn't feel right to me. Would it be better as "de vez en cuando Bob llega tarde a la oficina"? 2) I don't necessarily see why it's "que" and not "a". Isn't this entire sentence also a bit awkward anyway? 3) Are "particulares" and "personales" interchangeable here? 4) I like my "tenga mucha paciencia" better than "sea muy paciente". The latter feels like a direct word-for-word exchange from the English. Am I right here? 5) Are "probable" and "posible" interchangeable here? 6) Are "particulares" and "personales" interchangeable here? 7) Again, "muy" feels more English than does "bien". Are they interchangeable here, or is one or the other better? 8) Another that I translated exactly, word for word, but I don't like it. Is the Spanish really SO equivalent to the English here as to say "recibir una sorpresa"? Thanks so much for any suggestions that you have for me!! :) |
I won't muddy the water with specific comment, because you need more reliable responses, but interestingly I think the English is not badly written (and actually contains two real English subjunctives). The amount of red correction is misleading, because there are often equally valid choices, and to me, often yours seem as good as the book's choice. Especially the Ojalá, which would really annoy me. :twocents::twocents:
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So, the English. Here are some of my issues: - "It is better that the new boss understand..." - maybe that goes back to what we discussed yesterday about better and best. They are basically leading the student here into writing "más vale que"... - "He wishes the new manager will understand..." - simply awkward wording... - "He wishes the new manager to be..." - again, awkward... And, I suppose, the biggest irritation of all is that Bob is a jerk! He is the kind of employee who makes life more difficult for the rest of us.... :impatient: |
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Just a comment about your first query involving word order. Spanish word order in a sentence is more flexible than in English, but to me it sounds wrong if the verb is not the second or the first idea. So that de vez en cuando Bob (verb) is wrong, but de vez en cuando (verb) Bob and Bob (verb) .... de vez en cuando sound better. Please somebody correct that if wrong. :thinking: |
I guess I was thinking that it would be "de vez en cuando" before the verb to stress that's how often it happens, and to keep "tarde" closer to the end of the sentence because it's a more important phrase.... Hmmm... :thinking:
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- Not necessarily. Spanish language is flexible. In this case, the standard construction of the sentence, with the subject at the start and the adverb (modifying a verb) as close to the verb as possible, tends to sound better. - Bob llega tarde de vez en cuando. :good: :good: :good: - De vez en cuando Bob llega tarde. :good: :good: - Bob, de vez en cuando, llega tarde. :good: - De vez en cuando llega tarde Bob. / De vez en cuando llega Bob tarde. :wrong: (It would be understood, but it feels awkward) 2) I don't necessarily see why it's "que" and not "a". Isn't this entire sentence also a bit awkward anyway? - No, it isn't. "Que permita a sus empleados hacer llamadas" = "que permita que sus empleados hagan llamadas", but you're studying the subjunctive, so it was obvious that the sentence had to use it. 3) Are "particulares" and "personales" interchangeable here? - They aren't if you ask me. "Particulares" would be understood here as "peculiar". "Privadas" could have been a synonym. 4) I like my "tenga mucha paciencia" better than "sea muy paciente". The latter feels like a direct word-for-word exchange from the English. Am I right here? - Not necessarily. Both sentences are interchangeable, but maybe "que sea muy paciente" is more formal for writing. 5) Are "probable" and "posible" interchangeable here? - Just as much as they are in English. 6) Are "particulares" and "personales" interchangeable here? - ???? :confused: I suppose you just cut and pasted the question here, but "individuo" is disrespectful for a person. The book should have told. :thinking: 7) Again, "muy" feels more English than does "bien". Are they interchangeable here, or is one or the other better? - "Bien" is rather colloquial for this kind of expression. "Muy conocida" is the standard expression for a person. 8) Another that I translated exactly, word for word, but I don't like it. Is the Spanish really SO equivalent to the English here as to say "recibir una sorpresa"? - "Recibir una sorpresa" is the standard expression. (Use your dictionary in Spanish.) One more note: You must always say "la Sra. XXX"/"el Sr. XXX"/"la Srita. XXX" @Perikles: You're right to feel "ojalá" a bit weird here. "Ojalá" is certainly more common (in Mexican Spanish) than "desea que" ("desear", when it substitutes "querer", sounds much more formal and even ceremonious), but in writing, we prefer it to express the wish of a first person, not a third one. · Bob piensa: "Ojalá que el nuevo gerente sea amable". · Bob quiere/querría/preferiría/desea que el nuevo gerente tenga paciencia. |
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Chilean way. (corroborated by friends visiting from Chile) :) |
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I'd just like to make a little remark on the nickname ("Señora de Hierro") that Hernán has suggested: Since this seems to be a nickname inspired by the one given to Margaret Thatcher, the standard translation I've always seen is "La Dama de Hierro", so I think the book is more accurate there. :) |
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I'd accept a discrepancy on the upper case of "la", but I'd keep "Hierro", with a capital letter, since the nickname is not only "Dama".
I think I've mentioned before, they seem to be keeping capitalization in an (ugly) French fashion. ;( |
Yeah - I wasn't comfortable with it, but stuck with what they had. I'm with you on caps for proper nouns ... and we've talked about things like the name of the business, which I kept as Telemast Company instead of changing the "Company" to a lower case "empresa"...
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In the case of the company, it is different: the name of the firm is "Telemast", so when you talk about it, it's "la empresa Telemast". Some people might say "...la Telemast Company...", but people who don't speak English can find it presumptuous.
The reason why we write "Sra./Sr./Srita." with an upper case, is because they're abbreviations. Otherwise, we'd say "la señora/señorita López"/"el señor López". |
We've sort of talked about this now and then with other proper nouns. I understand your reasoning and explanation here. I wish that they had not capitalized "company" then. If the name of the company is "Telemast", then "company" should not be capitalized in the English version. In English, whatever parts of the name of a business are capitalized are part of the proper name of the company. "Central Park" is not a name of a park (lower case) called "Central". It is the name of a park called "Central Park". Does that thinking make sense?
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