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Subjunctive ejercicio (14-3)

laepelba

September 05, 2010 02:14 PM

Subjunctive ejercicio (14-3)

Necesito traducir algunos frases en español. El escenario es planear una fiesta. Tengo preguntas sobre tres:

4) Inglés: Lee brings sugar to the table in case they wan to put it in their coffee.
Español (del las respuestas en el libro): Lee trae el azúcar sobre la mesa en caso de que quieran ponerlo en el café.

6) Inglés: Mr. López hopes the guests leave before the football game begins.
Español (del las respuestas en el libro): El señor López espera que los invitados se vayan antes de que empiece el partido de fútbol.

7) Inglés: The guests plan to watch the game wtih Mr. López unless he refuses.
Español (del las respuestas en el libro): Los invitados quieren ver el partido con el señor López a menos que el se niegue.

Mis preguntas:
#4)
- How do you know when azúcar takes the masculine vs. the feminine article? Or would it be equally acceptable to say "Lee trae la azúcar..."?
- I thought that "a" was directional, and "sobre" meant "on" or "over". How can "to the table" be "sobre la mesa"?

#6)
- Would it be okay to say "salgan" instead of "se vayan"?
- Would it be okay to say "el partido de fútbol empiece" instead of the word order used by the book?

#7)
- Is this a common way to say that someone intends to do something? "Querer"?
- Does the "el" (near the end of the sentence) need a tilde ("él")?

Gracias!!

chileno

September 05, 2010 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 93617)

Necesito traducir algunos frases en español. El escenario es planear una fiesta. Tengo preguntas sobre tres:

4) Inglés: Lee brings sugar to the table in case they wan to put it in their coffee.
Español (del las respuestas en el libro): Lee trae el azúcar sobre la mesa en caso de que quieran ponerlo en el café.

6) Inglés: Mr. López hopes the guests leave before the football game begins.
Español (del las respuestas en el libro): El señor López espera que los invitados se vayan antes de que empiece el partido de fútbol.

7) Inglés: The guests plan to watch the game wtih Mr. López unless he refuses.
Español (del las respuestas en el libro): Los invitados quieren ver el partido con el señor López a menos que el se niegue.

Mis preguntas:
#4)
- How do you know when azúcar takes the masculine vs. the feminine article? Or would it be equally acceptable to say "Lee trae la azúcar..."?

El agua, el azúcar, they have been discussed before.

- I thought that "a" was directional, and "sobre" meant "on" or "over". How can "to the table" be "sobre la mesa"?

You are totally correct. I think the book is mistaken. Lee trae el azúcar a la mesa...

#6)
- Would it be okay to say "salgan" instead of "se vayan"?

You could say that Mr. Lopez hopes the guests get out of the house before... (but is it ok?)

- Would it be okay to say "el partido de fútbol empiece" instead of the word order used by the book?

Yes

#7)
- Is this a common way to say that someone intends to do something? "Querer"?

In this case means the guests wish/want to watch...

we can also use "planear= to plan"

- Does the "el" (near the end of the sentence) need a tilde ("él")?

Yes.

Gracias!!

:):):)

laepelba

September 05, 2010 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chileno (Post 93619)

Mis preguntas:
#4)
- How do you know when azúcar takes the masculine vs. the feminine article? Or would it be equally acceptable to say "Lee trae la azúcar..."?

El agua, el azúcar, they have been discussed before.

I didn't see that particular discussion. But in my dictionary it says that azúcar is "both a masculine noun and a feminine noun", but it says that agua is "a masculine noun that takes the feminine article in the singular". What is the difference between those two descriptions? Or would you mind giving me a link to the other discussion so that I may review it?

#6)
- Would it be okay to say "salgan" instead of "se vayan"?

You could say that Mr. Lopez hopes the guests get out of the house before... (but is it ok?)

I don't know if it's okay. That's what I'm asking.

#7)
- Is this a common way to say that someone intends to do something? "Querer"?

In this case means the guests wish/want to watch... Right, but the original sentence says "plan", which is very different than "wish/want". A "plan" is more of an intention... Are they less distinct in Spanish?

we can also use "planear= to plan" I wrote "planear" when I answered the question. It seems very different than "querer"....

Thanks, Chileno....

Rusty

September 05, 2010 03:09 PM

You bring up an interesting point about the word 'sugar'. In Spanish, both articles are allowed.
From what I've read, the majority of people use the masculine article (that's all I've ever heard or seen). The feminine article was in use in medieval times. Again, my counsel is 'when in Rome, ...'.

chileno

September 05, 2010 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chileno http://forums.tomisimo.org/images/sm...5/viewpost.gif
Mis preguntas:
#4)
- How do you know when azúcar takes the masculine vs. the feminine article? Or would it be equally acceptable to say "Lee trae la azúcar..."?

El agua, el azúcar, they have been discussed before.

I didn't see that particular discussion. But in my dictionary it says that azúcar is "both a masculine noun and a feminine noun", but it says that agua is "a masculine noun that takes the feminine article in the singular". What is the difference between those two descriptions? Or would you mind giving me a link to the other discussion so that I may review it?

#6)
- Would it be okay to say "salgan" instead of "se vayan"?

You could say that Mr. Lopez hopes the guests get out of the house before... (but is it ok?)

I don't know if it's okay. That's what I'm asking.

It is impossible to tackle your logic. Maybe I should have added in English.

Can you or may you. :)

#7)
- Is this a common way to say that someone intends to do something? "Querer"?

In this case means the guests wish/want to watch... Right, but the original sentence says "plan", which is very different than "wish/want". A "plan" is more of an intention... Are they less distinct in Spanish?

So to wish/want does not state an intention, if it it is accomplished is something else.

we can also use "planear= to plan" I wrote "planear" when I answered the question. It seems very different than "querer"....

Planear was the logical answer following suite to the question, but to wish and want would have worked, just like in English...

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 93621)

Thanks, Chileno....

You are welcome, and I'm sorry I cannot answer your questions neither logically nor intelligently. :(

JPablo

September 05, 2010 05:44 PM

Hola, Lou Ann.
Comparto opiniones.
Aquí hay un link para otro foro, (aunque quizá también esté en Tomísimo algo parecido.)
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=834422

(Si yo "planeo" ir de vacaciones, es que "quiero" irme de vacaciones... aunque no es exactamente lo mismo... se acerca.)

"Se vayan" more accurate than "salgan" (Chileno was asking in English, I believe.) (Not exactly the same... although, close enough.)

Let me know if I leave something in the "ink well" (In Spanish "dejarse algo en el tintero" means to overlook something, or fail to answer some point that has been missed.) ;) :)

laepelba

September 05, 2010 05:53 PM

Thanks, everyone - I think I've got it now. By the way ... the link in WR is great, and I just found one here that is also good: http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=4115 - thanks again!

JPablo

September 05, 2010 06:10 PM

You are welcome, and... thank you!
(By the way, just as a side note related to the thread you include, there is a Poem by Rafael Alberti, that reads, "El mar, la mar... sólo la mar".
I am going by memory now, but it is just an example how he "appreciates the sea". By saying "only the[femenine] sea" he is saying he is "a sailor" as the Andalusian sailors (south of Spain) call "the sea" "la mar"...) (So using the femenine article or the masculine article may give semantic connotations not always visible to the 'naked eye'... ;) :)) Although I may be going a little bit overboard, I take it is better to know it.

On a colloquial level I'd say, "pásame el azúcar". (Although in reality I do not take any sugar... rather honey in my tea... and coffee... just with cream, thank you!) :)

laepelba

September 05, 2010 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPablo (Post 93640)

On a colloquial level I'd say, "pásame el azúcar". (Although in reality I do not take any sugar... rather honey in my tea... and coffee... just with cream, thank you!) :)

Now, Malila is always reminding me that Spanish-speakers are very much interested in the aesthetics of the sounds of what is said ... and "el azúcar" for the same reason as "el agua" would make a lot of sense to me. Do you think this is why you would tend to use "el"? (Reality is that I love my coffee black ... but also enjoy drinking a good latte or café con leche.....) :)

JPablo

September 05, 2010 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 93641)

Yes, very much so. Not sure if they are "interested" on it, but surely, if they don't pay conscious attention to it, they [we] tend to follow that.

Even if the "a" in "el azúcar" is not "tonic", like the ones in "el agua" "el águila", "el hada", just by following the same pattern as these, one tends [I tend] to go with "el agua".

There is also things like "Viaje a la Alcarria" (the name of a book by Camilo José Cela, the Spanish Nobel Prize of few years ago, maybe a bit more than a decade now.) That is, when the "a" is not "tonic", finding "la a-" would not be something odd or uncommon. Like, "la Alhambra de Granada", "la andaluza que habla de esa forma", "la antigua ley de Castilla", "la anticuada señora" and so on and so forth.

(And yes, I also like dark coffee, particularly a good expresso...) ;)

laepelba

September 05, 2010 06:54 PM

Hmmmm .... you lost me there, sir. What is "tonic"? To me, all of those words you mentioned start with the same sound. Thus, I must be pronouncing/hearing them wrong....

JPablo

September 05, 2010 08:11 PM

Oh, I am sorry, here is what I mean, (tonic in the sense of 4. Stressed, as a syllable; accented.)

The bolded vowels have the "tonic" stress in pronouncing them.

Even if the "a" in "el azúcar" is not "tonic", like the ones in "el agua" "el águila", "el hada", just by following the same pattern as these, one tends [I tend] to go with "el azúcar".

In the case of "el azúcar", the "a" is NOT stressed, but the ú has the 'tonic'/stress. (As well as the graphic accent, or 'tilde').

The rule for femenine words with "tonic a" (stressed a) is need to be said with "el"...

Do I make more sense now? :)

laepelba

September 06, 2010 03:26 AM

YES!! Thanks - that is also helpful and, in fact, makes the whole "no 'la' agua" thing even more comprehensible. It's much easier to see why you could say "la azúcar" but you could not say "la agua". Likewise, "la almohada" is okay, yet "alma" is a feminine noun but it's "el alma" because the tonic is on the "a". YAY!! Thanks!!

JPablo

September 06, 2010 05:28 AM

Excellent! :thumbsup: Glad that you got that! :)

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