No soy vs. No estoy

[Caballero]

What is the difference between "No estoy" and "No soy" in this song?
What is it trying to say?


This is a really cool song!
And is that a Chilean accent?

[Perikles]

Good question. He seems to be very angry about something. Everything, in fact .

And she could do well by keeping off the drugs and makeup.

As for the accent, the title 'rock Chileno' might be a teeny weeny clue.

Edit: hey - that's cheating. You edited your post.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Perikles

As for the accent, the title 'rock Chileno' might be a teeny weeny clue.

Edit: hey - that's cheating. You edited your post.

Indeed, I would declare the same, sworn in court . But the fact is that there's no accent there -or there's a collage of many accents-. Probably something intended to reach international audiences. If you asked me, I would say the chap sings in a pretty neutral American accent but trying too hard to imitate some s-c-z differentiation as Americans think they do in Spain -not as they do indeed in Spain-.

About "ser" and "estar" it's just a play of words as creative and deep as all the non stop rhymes ended in "ión" . The lyrics are pretty much a land lot: build on it whatever you want.

"No estoy: no tengo fe. No soy: no tengo dios" ¡Qué profundo! Como diría el kioskero de la esquina «¿Eso es una letra? ¡Andá a laburar al puerto, andá!»

[Caballero]

Como diría el kioskero de la esquina «¿Eso es una letra? ¡Andá a laburar al puerto, andá!»

No lo entiendo.

but trying too hard to imitate some s-c-z differentiation as Americans think they do in Spain -not as they do indeed in Spain-

Do you mean he messed up on it? Why would he go for as neutral an American accent as possible, and then try to add the s-c-z differenciation? Or was he going for a Peninsular accent but just didn't do it well enough, so it ended up sounding like a neutral American accent?

[Luna Azul]

No salgo de mi asombro ante una letra tan profunda.

I can't get over my astonishment at the depth of the lyrics.

"ser" and "estar" in this song mean nothing. The accent is a fake accent. Nothing to do with Chile or any other place.

You shouldn't try to learn grammar using this type of songs. Most of the time the words mean nothing.

I'm sorry.. Don't take it personally.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Caballero

No lo entiendo.

Meaning: «Those are lyrics, really? Get a real job! They're hiring at the pierce.»

Originally Posted by Caballero

Do you mean he messed up on it? Why would he go for as neutral an American accent as possible, and then try to add the s-c-z differenciation? Or was he going for a Peninsular accent but just didn't do it well enough, so it ended up sounding like a neutral American accent?

It's a sort of fake neutral all-Hispanic accent. The same happens with Spanish groups trying to neutralize their accent to appeal the international market. About localization of those accents I would say that they sink in Sargasso Sea.

It's the equivalent of North American actors doing Shakespeare and trying too hard to imitate John Gielgud's accent. They'd do better by using a nice neutral ivy-leaguish accent, as Shakespeare's plays are no localisms and patrimonial for every English speaking community. The same way, smoothed local accents stripped from too local vocabulary are better than accents like the song's.

About the song, the accent imitates some "crossbred" accent used by the Spanish speaking versions of broadcasting companies based on USA that appeal to all the angles of the youth market, like Disney Channel or MTV. So it's the accent used in the Hispanic counterparts of The Twilight Saga which means that instead of being pathetic and spectacular, they're just plain pathetic.

[chileno]

I think that's the Rock Latino style that started in the 80's, they all sounded about the same.

[Caballero]

It's the equivalent of North American actors doing Shakespeare and trying too hard to imitate John Gielgud's accent. They'd do better by using a nice neutral ivy-leaguish accent, as Shakespeare's plays are no localisms and patrimonial for every English speaking community

You mean so it doesn't sound too weird to British and Australian audiences? Because it sounds like a perfect British accent to North Americans. It would be odd to use that accent for something so pop cultury as this, as it sounds quite pretensious. Is the same thing true for this kind of accent?

How does this accent work exactly? Do you have to put in the Peninsular Castillian c/z distincción? Wouldn't it be better to go for an Andalusian accent, because it's closer to American accents? How does the accent they have differ from a Mexican or Chilean accent?

[chileno]

I wouldn't say that's even close to Spanish accent.

[Caballero]

Originally Posted by chileno

I wouldn't say that's even close to Spanish accent.

What would you say it is then?

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Caballero

You mean so it doesn't sound too weird to British and Australian audiences? Because it sounds like a perfect British accent to North Americans. It would be odd to use that accent for something so pop cultury as this, as it sounds quite pretensious. Is the same thing true for this kind of accent?

It doesn't sound pretentious but artificial, besides the actors/singers clearly showing that they are making a effort to "perform" the accents instead of being completely devoted to perform/sing at their most.

Originally Posted by Caballero

How does this accent work exactly? Do you have to put in the Peninsular Castillian c/z distincción? Wouldn't it be better to go for an Andalusian accent, because it's closer to American accents? How does the accent they have differ from a Mexican or Chilean accent?

Closer is a relative term, not absolute. The only accents that are in the middle of a continuum of accents with those from Spain in one extreme and those from the New World in the other, are the accents from Canary Island, Mississippi Delta and a few spots in the Caribbean. Accent wise, the middle ground is almost empty.

[Caballero]

Do you know of other videos that use this accent that aren't of singing, so I can hear the prosody?

[aleCcowaN]

In fact, as those accents are artificial there are a lot of versions. The only one I think maybe have a lot of videos in Youtube is the first dubbing of TV series intended to the whole Spanish speaking world -in 1955 only a few million people had TV in those countries-. That accent is in famous series like Bonanza, I love Lucy and Perry Mason. From 1963 on, dubbing in Spain and Latin America followed different paths.

Here you have a hybrid language video from I Love Lucy (1951)

[Caballero]

On that one, what are the main differences between it and a Mexican accent?

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Caballero

On that one, what are the main differences between it and a Mexican accent?

Vocabulary, intonation, pronunciation.

[Caballero]

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

Vocabulary, intonation, pronunciation.

Can you give some examples?

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Caballero

Can you give some examples?

Not really. Too much work. Maybe someone else will be willing to. Why is it so important?

[Caballero]

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

Not really. Too much work. Maybe someone else will be willing to. Why is it so important?

It's very important because I am interested in language variation. It also improves pronunciation of a language more than anything else, to learn about the prosody in varias varieties of a language. At the moment, I can only distinguish a couple accents of Spanish. Being able to understand how the prosody works is key. Prosody is probably my worst aspect of my accent. I don't know when to go up, and when to go down. And anyway, the accent in that video was very interesting. Also I am interested in vocabulary differences in the different dialects of Spanish.

[Rusty]

Language variations are way too numerous and I believe it beyond anyone's ability to teach them all to someone else (or know them all, for that matter).

These kinds of things are only learned through your own experience.
Your ears have to experience how Spanish is spoken in Mexico (or anywhere else). You'll need to devote the time it takes to listen to and learn the vocabulary and cadence (my unfancy way of saying prosody) used in a particular region. Once you feel confident with the phrasing, the intonation and the culture, only then can you focus your attention on another region and recognize the differences. The Spanish spoken in northern Mexico is not the same as the Spanish you'll hear in the DF, for example.

I lived in four different countries and learned four very different Spanish accents, because I lived in four very different cultures. Word intonation and phrasing were different in each country. Each people had their own heritage and their own way of interpreting their surroundings. Different surroundings (different contacts with indigenous or neighboring peoples) contributed to variations in vocabulary.

[Caballero]

The problem is that people often speak too fast, so I can't really analyze their prosody, so that is why I need to have it explained to me which pitches are used. I seem to have a tin ear when it comes to prosody.