Verse burlado

[laepelba]

From the Bible, Reina Valera 1995 translation: "Herodes entonces, cuando se vio burlado por los sabios, se enojó mucho..."

I know that it means "When Herod saw that he had been tricked by the wise men..."

I don't really understand the construction of the highlighted phrase. Can you give me some more sentences with constructions such as this?

Thank you!

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

From the Bible, Reina Valera 1995 translation: "Herodes entonces, cuando se vio burlado por los sabios, se enojó mucho..."

Surely you can translate it literally as when he saw himself tricked ... which is exactly the same construction as English.

se vio reflejado en el agua -- he saw himself reflected in the water = he saw his reflection...
¿tú te ves viviendo allí? -- Can you see yourself living here?

[laepelba]

Somehow it seems quite different to me....

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Somehow it seems quite different to me....

Sorry - I've edited my post with examples

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Surely you can translate it literally as when he saw himself tricked ... which is exactly the same construction as English.

se vio reflejado en el agua -- he saw himself reflected in the water = he saw his reflection...
¿tú te ves viviendo allí? -- Can you see yourself living here?

This is exactly it.

EDIT: highlighted in red

[Rusty]

I changed the thread title to better reflect the question grammatically.

[aleCcowaN]

"verse + passive participle" is one of the +150 verbal periphrasis in Spanish. It means to suddenly realise that one has been subjected to the action in the past participle or to suddenly perceive the consequences of that action. It is a bit dated and it's used in some collocations:

verse burlado, engañado, timado, estafado, traicionado
verse atrapado, rodeado, sitiado
verse desesperado
verse herido, herido de muerte

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

"verse + passive participle" is one of the +150 verbal periphrasis in Spanish. It means to suddenly realise that one has been subjected to the action in the past participle or to suddenly perceive the consequences of that action. It is a bit dated and it's used in some collocations:

verse burlado, engañado, timado, estafado, traicionado
verse atrapado, rodeado, sitiado
verse desesperado
verse herido, herido de muerte

THAT is what I wasn't getting. THANK YOU!!

I think what I was expecting was something like "(él) vio que le han burlado (de él)" or something like that....

And I thought that the "se" was with the "burlar" and not the "ver"....

Now that I know to look for "verse + PP", it makes so much more sense!!

More examples in context would never hurt, but if I have time later, maybe I'll try to write some....

THANK YOU to all!!

[aleCcowaN]

You're welcome!

As always happens, hours later a lot of examples starts to come to my mind:

La tecnología abc se ha visto superada por la más moderna efg.
La hija de [persona famosa o poderosa] se ha visto envuelta en un escándalo de sexo y drogas.
Pese al tratamiento se vio limitado a comer todo sin sal y casi sin grasas.

I can't imagine an example using future other than warnings, as it is not easy to predict the moment of suddenly realizing anything, but it works when it's associated with constrains:

Si sigue gastando a ese ritmo se verá obligado pronto a vender sus obras de arte.

[JPablo]

Tus esfuerzos por comprender esto se verán recompensados en el futuro... o en las sucesivas secuencias de los "ahoras" que nadie puede eludir...

Me vi galardonado con un premio que no me merecía, pero que acepté.

Me veré traicionado por mis propias tropas si no hago algo para evitarlo...

No quiero verme engañado por mis propias ilusiones utópicas.

[laepelba]

It almost feels like a different "passive voice".

So something like this:

- Mis facturas se ven pagados por un benefactor.
- El vino se vio agotado durante la fiesta.
- Te verás enojado por esos estudiantes.

Do those sentences work?

[JPablo]

Mmmh... no, at first glance these three examples do not work for me...

I can understand them, but do not sound natural or idiomatic to me.

The reason... (mmh, I am thinking about it), but seems like the expression "verse +verb" require a collocation like Alec was pointing out before.

Verse engañado
Sentirse deshonrado
Verse burlado
Verse estafado

Looks like the past participle has to be for a verb which makes you "the effect of something" (that's why it seems like a "different passive voice") but the verb itself has to have that semantic sense.

I.e, I'd say,
- Mis facturas son pagadas por un benefactor. (Or rather, I'd use the active voice more naturally here, Un benefactor ha pagado mis facturas)
- Nos quedamos sin vino durante la fiesta. Or "Se nos acabó el vino en la fiesta"
- Esos estudiantes me van a hacer enojar.

Mis mejores intenciones se vieron fustradas por falta de medios para ejecutarlas.

Does that help at all?

[aleCcowaN]

It's not a passive voice at all: "se vio rodeado por sus enemigos" --> "los enemigos ¿le rodearon su vista?". It's rather "de pronto se dio cuenta de que los enemigos lo habían rodeado"

"Me vi galardonado" es falsa modestia.

"Mis facturas ..." and "El vino ..." can't realise of anything, and hardly can be paid or drunk all of a sudden. Other periphrasis describe the latter: "el vino se fue agotando durante la fiesta hasta que acabó por agotarse"

"Enojarse" is pronominal and hardly a permanent condition: "los estudiantes te harán enojar".

[JPablo]

Mmm... si "verse galardonado" es falsa modestia, "verse engañado" ¿es entonces "falsa sapiencia"?

(Just kidding a bit here, but there are guys who get awards, "sin comérselo ni bebérselo" whether they deserve it or not, and has nothing to do with their attitude...)

[aleCcowaN]

Para mi sorpresa, me vi .... (and then "galardonado" suits well; also "implicado", "detenido", "acusado")

[JPablo]

Ah, vale.

Otro ejemplo,

Me vi afectado por una especie de conjuro de egocentrismo ególatra que me obligó a satisfacer mis impulsos más mundanos...

[Elaina]

Originally Posted by JPablo

Ah, vale.

Otro ejemplo,

Me vi afectado por una especie de conjuro de egocentrismo ególatra que me obligó a satisfacer mis impulsos más mundanos...

¡Espero que no hables así normalmente!

[JPablo]

Mmmh... a veces me veo afectado por impulsos de afectación léxico-semántica que me obligan a emplear un lenguaje excesivamente rebuscado, afectado y pedantesco... pero no duran mucho rato...

[Elaina]

Originally Posted by JPablo

Mmmh... a veces me veo afectado por impulsos de afectación léxico-semántica que me obligan a emplear un lenguaje excesivamente rebuscado, afectado y pedantesco... pero no duran mucho rato...

¡Gracias a Dios!

[laepelba]

I haven't yet had a chance to attempt to write some more practice sentences with this construction, but wonder if, when you say that there are about 150 collocations, that there is a list somewhere "out there"? I have found a couple of websites that mention "verse + participio", but I can't find a good list of the verbs that can be used with verse in this sense.... Thanks!!