Tú y Usted

[Beto]

Not being a native Spanish speaker, I have trouble identifying with when to use tú and usted forms. I understand that usted is a way of showing respect, but the instances of use are fuzzy to me. For example, tú o usted:

1. A teacher in class talking to students on the first day of class.

2. A guest staying at a host's house and they have never met previously.

3. A 50 year-old student being taught Spanish by a 24 year-old teacher.

4. A father to his children.

5. Children to their parents.

6. An older man talking with a 30-something man or woman in a park, whom he has met for the first time that afternoon.

What do you think?

[CrOtALiTo]

In the second choice.

I believe that should take the word Usted.

Un invitado espera en la casa de huespedes, y usted nunca me conocio previamente?

I'm not very sure about my answer, I'd like to wait to everyone answer these questions for me.

[pjt33]

It varies immensely between different Spanish-speaking cultures, generations, contexts, ...

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Beto

Not being a native Spanish speaker, I have trouble identifying with when to use tú and usted forms. I understand that usted is a way of showing respect, but the instances of use are fuzzy to me. For example, tú o usted:

1. A teacher in class talking to students on the first day of class. Ustedes (plural)

2. A guest staying at a host's house and they have never met previously. Usted.

3. A 50 year-old student being taught Spanish by a 24 year-old teacher. Usted (unless they get to know fairly well and they aree to address each other as tú (tutear), if not, with time maybe the student will address the teacher as tú in informal situations but revert to usted during formal situations)

4. A father to his children. Tú and ustedes (plural)

5. Children to their parents. Depends on the parents. (My mom never allowed me to addressed her as tú and much less like my "old lady" which in my time was the ideal of a modern (cool) mother...)

6. An older man talking with a 30-something man or woman in a park, whom he has met for the first time that afternoon. Usted, although some old people like to take to opportunity to be more familiar and hence a bit disrespectful.

What do you think?

[irmamar]

Yo a todos de tú

[Beto]

Thanks for your help. Couple more questions:

If one is staying with a family for a week or two, how long before they use the tú form? Should the host or the guest initiate the request to use the tú form?

Would a person of 60 + years always use the tú form when speaking with people in their 20s/30s, or is there also a period of getting more familiar before using it?

[CrOtALiTo]

It's not necessary always, because it depends of the education to has the person in question.

Therefore a person with more than 60 years old can speaks with a younger people without uses the word Usted.

For instance.

Hello Mr.

Have you angry, if you want, I can go for something to eat.

Hola. Si tienes hambre puedo ir por algo de comer.

Hola. Si tiene hambre puedo ir por algo de comer.

If you ca see the different between the two sentences they aren't completely same.

[Beto]

I see, but my understanding is that (tiene) is the usted form and (tienes) is the tú form; therefore, even though the words used and tú are not used the form is in use. Does that make sense?

Let me correct that. ...even though the words "usted" and "tú" are not used, the form is in use.

[irmamar]

I think that here, in Spain, "tú" is more used than in Latin America. Usually I use the "tú" form (and I'm against the use of "usted" one). Many elder people want to be called with "tú" treatment (and it's obvious with young people). An old person would never say "usted" to young people. People in the middle age (and older) call each other "tú".

I reserve the "tú" treatment for those people who think they are important (and for formal writings, of course)

[chileno]

Originally Posted by irmamar

I think that here, in Spain, "tú" is more used than in Latin America. Usually I use the "tú" form (and I'm against the use of "usted" one). Many elder people want to be called with "tú" treatment (and it's obvious with young people). An old person would never say "usted" to young people. People in the middle age (and older) call each other "tú".

I reserve the "tú" treatment for those people who think they are important (and for formal writings, of course)

You mean usted?

And you are talking about how it is used in Spain. At least in Chile, people will tell you rather in a hurry that you are mistaken, unless you happened to sleep with them last night.

[Elaina]

I was always taught that unless, as Chileno said, you slept with them last night that it is respectful to address people by "usted" until you have a comfortable enough relationship to use "tu". Older people, most definitely would be "usted"....never, ever "tu". When I say older, I mean older than you and all elderly are "usted".

I know there are differences in other countries so I think that what I was taught is mostly Mexican.

[pjt33]

Como ya dije, varia mucho. En España un desconocido es tú. En (¿partes de?) Colombia, el mejor amigo es usted. Luego hay el voseo (que también varia mucho), ...

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by chileno

You mean usted?

And you are talking about how it is used in Spain. At least in Chile, people will tell you rather in a hurry that you are mistaken, unless you happened to sleep with them last night.

¿Quieres decir que tendría que dormir con un chileno una noche para poder tutearle?

Podría hacer un chiste malo..., pero a partir de ahora le trataré de usted, Sr. Chileno

[Beto]

Thanks, that was helpful.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by pjt33

Como ya dije, varia mucho. En España un desconocido es tú. En (¿partes de?) Colombia, el mejor amigo es usted. Luego hay el voseo (que también varia mucho), ...

Correción: En colombia todos son "usted" y creo que en El Salvador también.

Se usa el tú (no sé en que momento), pero en señal de respeto a todos, incluyendo a los amigos, se les trata de "usted".

[Cloudgazer]

The hispanohablante friends and acquaintances I've asked about this have all said it basically depends on what they feel is best at the time, unless the situation is distinctly formal or informal.

I've had them tutear and ¿ustedear? back and forth with me depending on how comfortable they felt about appearing familiar or 'correct' with me to the people around us (cultural and peer pressures), how relaxed or stressed they felt about life in general, how intimate or distant they wanted to be with me at the moment, sometimes even changing mode over and over in the same encounter without even recognizing it. I think a bit of it might be they're used to saying certain things with certain forms.

And I've bothered some by not using the "right" form at the time, too. If I use usted forms when they're feeling "tú-ish", it might peeve them as being too stiff or distant. And you can imagine what using tú forms at an "usted" moment might entail.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Cloudgazer

The hispanohablante friends and acquaintances I've asked about this have all said it basically depends on what they feel is best at the time, unless the situation is distinctly formal or informal.

I've had them tutear and ¿ustedear? back and forth with me depending on how comfortable they felt about appearing familiar or 'correct' with me to the people around us (cultural and peer pressures), how relaxed or stressed they felt about life in general, how intimate or distant they wanted to be with me at the moment, sometimes even changing mode over and over in the same encounter without even recognizing it. I think a bit of it might be they're used to saying certain things with certain forms.

And I've bothered some by not using the "right" form at the time, too. If I use usted forms when they're feeling "tú-ish", it might peeve them as being too stiff or distant. And you can imagine what using tú forms at an "usted" moment might entail.

of course, and that's the attitude some older people adopt with younger people sometime....

No. I am not calling you "older"

[poli]

Originally Posted by Beto

Thanks for your help. Couple more questions:

If one is staying with a family for a week or two, how long before they use the tú form? Should the host or the guest initiate the request to use the tú form?

Would a person of 60 + years always use the tú form when speaking with people in their 20s/30s, or is there also a period of getting more familiar before using it?

If they are staying in you house, tú would make sense. If they are paying you for their stay and you dont know them and they appear stodgy, it may be wise to use usted.

[irmamar]

As far as I know, "ustedear" doesn't exist, but "tratar de usted"

[Cloudgazer]

Originally Posted by chileno

of course, and that's the attitude some older people adopt with younger people sometime....

No. I am not calling you "older"

Jejeje . . . aunque a veces me siento viejo.

Originally Posted by irmamar

As far as I know, "ustedear" doesn't exist, but "tratar de usted"

¡Jajaja! Me puedo oír a mí mismo ya:

-Por favor, no me ustedees, mi estrecho amigo.-
-¿Cóoomo?-
-¡Uf! Lo que quería decir era «no me trates de usted».-
-De acuerdo. . .-