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  #1
Old October 21, 2010, 01:12 AM
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Propel around

I'm not sure what this sentence means:

(The collapse of Roman Britain) propelled native peoples around the British Isles.

Thanks.
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  #2
Old October 21, 2010, 01:42 AM
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Algo como "llevó a los pueblos nativos en torno a las islas británicas", los "impulsó a ir ahí"?

propel 2. to impel or urge onward: Urgent need of money propelled him to take a job.

(No estoy seguro del "around" sin tener más contexto...)
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  #3
Old October 21, 2010, 01:54 AM
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No tengo mucho más contexto:

(the collapse...) drew Germanic migrants from across the Channel and propelled native peoples around the B. Isles.

No entiendo ese "around".
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  #4
Old October 21, 2010, 02:25 AM
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Seems to me the "around" is just "in the vecinity of the Isles".

With the Germanic migrants moving around, or from across the Channel, I take going into the Isles(?) if you are writing from the B. Isles viewpoint... made the native peoples move around... (I guess these were some Jutes? and some old Swedish tribes?)

To me is like if in 711 the Muslims come from the North of Africa and the Visigoths and the "Suevos" had to move around the north of Spain...

I am guessing here, but "around" also means "from one place to another" or "to a different place" so the native peoples were sent to other places around the Isles... I would dare to say... (Maybe that is to 'daring', but hopefully Perikles or Poli can shed some more light, for us native "Celtibers"!)
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  #5
Old October 21, 2010, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
I'm not sure what this sentence means:

(The collapse of Roman Britain) propelled native peoples around the British Isles.

Thanks.
I don't like propelled here - surely drove would have been better. Around (almost) means round, although perhaps with an added sense of confusion or randomness:

He drove the car round the corner.
The puppy was running around in the garden.
They were running around like headless chicken.
The dog was driving the sheep around in the field. (in confusion)
The dog was driving the sheep round the corner. (in an orderly manner).

Fowler has a whole page on round/around, and concludes

Quote:
In the face of such evidence one can only suppose that contextual euphony is perhaps the strongest factor in determining the choice, except when the meaning required is 'approximately'
(i.e. I'll come and see you around 6.00)
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  #6
Old October 21, 2010, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
I'm not sure what this sentence means:

(The collapse of Roman Britain) propelled native peoples around the British Isles.

Thanks.
"Propelled" in this case is similar to "forced", "drove", or "pushed." It is saying that it did not literally force them to the British Isles, but the circumstances pushed/drove them to go there.

Example:
My company closing down has forced/drove/pushed me to leave the area.

You could also use "propelled" here, but like Perikles, I do not like the use of that term for this type of sentence.

Around = randomly covering the area (in this particular case as I interpret it)

Example:
The people spread around the entire country.
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  #7
Old October 21, 2010, 06:46 AM
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Created a diáspora would be a better way of saying it.
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  #8
Old October 22, 2010, 12:38 AM
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Supongo que, más o menos, "se dispersaron" por las islas.

Gracias.
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  #9
Old October 22, 2010, 03:32 AM
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Yo me atrevería a decir, aunque no de forma categórica, que "sufrieron un desplazamiento involuntario motivado por la presión bárbara (o una presión de lo más bárbara) que causó una diáspora o dispersión de los grupos nativos en torno a espacios, lugares, hábitats y entornos naturales propios de los mares de Norte, Mar Céltico, Canal de la Mancha... desde Dover hasta las Hébridas, en contra de su más íntima voluntad y libre albedrío, en clara violación de los Derechos Humanos y del tratado de Helsinki... a pesar del hecho de que estos documentos no existieran en aquellos tiempos"... para decirlo "en dos palabras" y sin complicaciones, o sea, sin... tetizando...

(¡Qué maaalo soy!)
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  #10
Old October 22, 2010, 08:39 AM
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Serviría esto?

http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltCons...LEMA=propulsar
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  #11
Old October 22, 2010, 04:42 PM
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A mí me parece que "propulsar" no funcionaría en español. Creo que "empujar" aunque más 'vulgar' va mejor, o "desplazar" quizá sea lo mejor. (Aunque Irma preguntaba por el significado, no necesariamente por la traducción.)
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  #12
Old October 22, 2010, 06:42 PM
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Ok. Yo solo decía...

Sin....tético
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  #13
Old October 22, 2010, 06:58 PM
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Claro, para decirlo en dos palabras... (bueno, dos o tressssss...)
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  #14
Old October 23, 2010, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPablo View Post
A mí me parece que "propulsar" no funcionaría en español.
Hombre, Perikles ya ha dicho que a él no le parece que funcione "propel" en inglés, y yo estoy de acuerdo.
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  #15
Old October 23, 2010, 01:43 AM
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Sí, no sé si Chileno pasó por alto lo que dijo Perikles... pero en español suena igual (de mal) o peor que en inglés. (A veces puede darse el caso que en una u otra lengua, la 'misma' palabra puede 'colocar' mejor...)

Bueno... llueve sobre mojado, pues creo que aquí todos coincidimos... (y los pobres nativos yendo de un lado para otro mientras nosotros divagamos...)
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  #16
Old October 23, 2010, 06:15 AM
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Es que me parece haber escuchado o leído en más de una ocasión eso de propulsar una idea de cambio etc... estoy hablando de cuando era chico.

Además que está siempre la idea de que pudiera ser un amigo falso.

Ustedes son más difíciles que peñiscar un vidrio, ¿ah?

Last edited by chileno; October 23, 2010 at 06:18 AM.
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  #17
Old October 23, 2010, 06:40 AM
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No, si "propulsar una idea de cambio" me parece bien, donde no "cuela" es "propulsar a los nativos dispersándolos por las islas..." (?)

Se podría 'entender', pero no es lo más habitual. (Mira el principio del thread.)

Por cierto, ¿peñiscar o pellizcar?
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  #18
Old October 23, 2010, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPablo View Post
No, si "propulsar una idea de cambio" me parece bien, donde no "cuela" es "propulsar a los nativos dispersándolos por las islas..." (?)

Se podría 'entender', pero no es lo más habitual. (Mira el principio del thread.)

Por cierto, ¿peñiscar o pellizcar?
Entiendo lo que dices, pero me parece insólito a que el tipo tomara de la mano a cada uno de los habitantes y los llevara.... por lo cuál creo que propulsó la idea de era bueno que se cambiaran lo antes posible.

Es pellizcar. La otra es a la chilensis. (perdón)
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  #19
Old October 23, 2010, 04:18 PM
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Ah, pero es que no es "el tipo" es la circunstancia de la caída del Imperio Romano lo que "propulsó" la migración...

Los pueblos nativos se vieron "empujados", no creo que nadie hiciera una campaña de "relaciones públicas" para "propulsar" la idea de lo bueno que era "irse de vacaciones" a las Hébridas, dado que otros bárbaros estaban en el Bosque de Ashdown...

"Propulsar una idea" como dices, sí me suena bien y me cuadra, "propulsar a los pueblos nativos" (aunque lo entendería) no me suena "muy pacá"

Obviamente, nadie tomó a nadie de la mano... se presentaron (seguramente en Dover) y "los desplazaron" así por las buenas... (o por las malas)

(Muy chévere, "la chilensis")
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  #20
Old October 23, 2010, 11:47 PM
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Ah, correcto. My mistake.
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